I’ve played this build many times, so I’m quite certain it’s weak. While sufficient personal skill can definitely clear Havoc 40 with this build, it still doesn’t compare to meta builds in any way.
If you want to prove it’s one of strongest build. you need to demonstrate what advantages it has over meta builds.
All I see is that it sacrifices team utility, hides behind the protection of teammates, and delivers mediocre DPM.
Someone always say I’m fixated on DPS, but for a build that offers zero team utility, what else can it provide besides DPS?
Still has great armor agnostic damage, has a huge amount of uptime because of shock trooper, and still has “team utility” and survivability due to grenades. The lack of ammo reliance paired with it’s AP damage is it’s greatest strength imo.
It’s not going to out DPS a competent Dueling Sword Zealot or Purg Psyker. Depending on density probably not Plasma gun or Bolter either. But it has better sustain than the other guns.
ammo consumption? you keep moving the goalposts. ‘Yeah it doesn’t do well’. Yes it clearly can if 2 players can use it and win. ‘Well it doesn’t do anything unique’ yes? There are such limited ammo resources for all other weapons you do not even get 20% of the potential uptime of this weapon. and you don’t even have to interact with ammo bags running shock. like sure it’s not spamming purgustus clouds for 1 hour straight damage but to call it bad is just laughably disingenuous. it is definitely a risky loadout to run without protection, but that’s about it. that’s also more of a glass cannon thing which the game should have more of and not just max damage + max safety cloud that literally makes a billion toughness a second.
I don’t expect it to outperform a Psyker in terms of damage, so let’s compare it to my melee VoC Veteran—a classic meta build.
I can provide golden toughness to the team and stagger hordes, use smoke grenades to neutralize most shooters, gunners, and Specialists, and efficiently clear Crushers and Bulwarks with the Power Sword while dealing substantial boss damage.
I reserve the Plasma Gun for dealing with ranged Specialists and some gunners, so ammo is rarely an issue.
In the end, I can maintain around 60k DPM. So, what would you think are the advantages of the Executioner Veteran in comparison?
You need to distinguish between personal skill level and build strength. The fact that someone can clear Havoc 40 with this build doesn’t prove that the build itself is strong.
In reality, they would perform even better with other builds.
This is exactly what I’ve observed from my own experience clearing Havoc 40 with both the exe vet and VoC vet
As for the advantage you mentioned, referring to my previous point, even in Havoc 40, the VoC melee Vet has more than sufficient ammo
In terms of damage, survivability, or supportive capabilities, a build must, at very last, possess its own distinct advantages compared to meta builds—and the exe vet has none of these advantages.
dude you can’t have it both ways. either the game is easy enough that loadouts do not matter or you can actually be successful running alternate to the 5 best loadouts in the game. you have to choose here.
both admit that you’re wrong and I can clearly tell you’re too turbogamer to see it that way, but you already defeated your own dribble so own it. you’re becoming a parody at this point. Hellbore is one of the last things that needs a buff so I don’t even know what point you’re trying to make anymore. Just needlessly combative.
Alright, let me reiterate my final position: The exe vet is a build capable of clearing Havoc 40. However, since numerous off-meta builds can also achieve this as long as you have sufficient skill
it does not qualify as one of strongest build—it lacks its own distinct advantages.it even need buff
Players with low skill levels using it will only spell disaster for the team, which is why I prefer not to have teammates of uncertain skill levels running this build.
So, it should not be labeled as a strong build or recommended to others.especially considering there are so many players here who haven’t cleared Havoc 40 yet.
you posted 1 build, I’d like to see your definition of meta if the Hellbore (recently buffed quite bigly) apparently still needs buffs. because it isn’t actually going to be very wide.
all they ever claimed was that it can contribute high damage with support skill and good positioning, everything else is just a redirect away from that.
and the last round of ‘let’s buff everything’ just made armor worse than ever and removed a lot of choice in melee weapons, so I would really rather just see those 5 loadouts nerfed than attempting to find some way to compete with mass AoE and cleave. because as long as you get to mill entire screens instead of engage target by target there is no comparison, and if the end game is that there is no actual variety in the gameplay or skill expression anymore. Just nerf fire and explosions and reel in plasma cleave, it’s not that hard. also gold toughness is stupid.
I haven’t observed its high damage output. Compared to meta builds, it lacks team utility and its damage isn’t outstanding (I haven’t seen notably high DPM). Therefore, I consider it to have no distinct advantages.
I can provide you with an example of a meta build for reference.
There are 2 point left you can chose whatever you like Or with minor adjustments
The weapons are what I mentioned earlier, though they can also be substituted with the Dueling Sword and Boltgun.
As for the build strength, you can refer to the scoreboard I shared earlier.
Additionally, you can reallocate some talent points from the right-side branch to the left and change your ability to Executioner, effectively transforming into an exe vet.
If you equip a Boltgun or Plasma Gun, you would at least possess a distinct advantage in burst damage compared to meta builds.
While this may result in significant ammo scarcity, it’s an off-meta build that, despite its clear weaknesses, still maintains its own niche advantages compared to meta builds. In contrast, the Helbore may not face ammo issues, but neither do meta Veteran builds—thus, it lacks any distinct advantage.
Yes and by being better than the other 27 weapons avaliable at that point (taking both plasma and boltgun away but also all the Hellbore marks) you arrive at the exact.same.point. The Hellbore is totally usable and the only damage outliers are the two essentially mass damage/burst options vs it, which no gameplay scenario can provide equal benefit for the Hellbore user unless they get like infinite cleave with Hotshot or something (please no devs). I don’t get it, you just got the chance to post this extremely wide meta and you literally posted the alternate loadout specialized for unyielding used by those same meta slaves. Like what. Are you going to tell me the las pistol is better?
Your argument fundamentally misses the point. Restricting the comparison to only 27 weapons by removing all top-tier options doesn’t prove the Hellbore’s strength - it only demonstrates how it struggles to compete in reality. The ‘specialized unyielding build’ you mentioned is precisely evidence of its inflexibility: it requires specific configurations to function while meta builds maintain versatility.
The core issue remains: the Hellbore lacks meaningful advantages. While having no ammo issues sounds good, meta Veterans also don’t have ammo problems while providing superior team utility and flexibility. Your proposed ‘infinite cleave’ scenario only reinforces how the weapon needs unrealistic buffs to compete.
True build diversity requires meaningful trade-offs, not just ‘usable’ weapons. The Hellbore currently offers no compelling reason to choose it over established meta options beyond personal preference
and you fell flat again because you are now going back to ‘it can only compete with 2 weapons or be bad’. and apparently Havoc 40 is once again impossible. I said before pick a lane, or just admit that your laughably constructed backpedaling and crumbling argument fell apart a while ago. either way find someone else to annoy with your non starter discussions you combative midwit. there is clearly no making progress with you.
Your persistent personal attacks only reveal the weakness of your position. I have consistently maintained that clearing Havoc 40 doesn’t automatically make a build strong - countless off-meta builds can achieve this with sufficient skill. The real metric is comparative advantage: what does this build offer that meta builds don’t? Your failure to identify any meaningful advantages speaks volumes.
Instead of addressing the actual discussion about build diversity and balance, you’ve chosen to dismiss valid criticism as ‘impossible’ while refusing to engage with the core issue: the Hellbore’s lack of distinctive strengths in the current meta. If you cannot have this discussion without resorting to insults, perhaps you’re right - this conversation has indeed reached its end.
the only thing consistent is you jumping back and forth between havoc 40 being impossible to clear without meta loadouts and it apparently being so easy that you can clear it with anything (but not like the third best vet loadout behind lazily swapping your primary on the ‘all grenades and damage buffs + gold toughness’ vet loadout). that has been your only position and it self defeats itself before it even comes close to making sense. there is no discussion to be had with that commitment to the bit. we just flip flop post in post out between in not mattering and it apparently being all consuming. this is your mind on playing video games as a job.
The only consistent thing here is your deliberate misinterpretation. There’s no contradiction between recognizing that Havoc 40 is clearable with various builds while still acknowledging clear power disparities between them. Your false dichotomy between ‘impossible’ and ‘so easy anything works’ is a strawman - I’ve always maintained that skill can compensate for build weaknesses, but that doesn’t make weak builds suddenly strong.
The Hellbore remains what it always has been: a serviceable weapon that gets outclassed by options providing better utility, burst damage, or team synergy. Your refusal to engage with actual build comparison while constructing imaginary contradictions says everything about whose position is truly crumbling
You literally said 27 weapons in the game don’t exist so the Hellbore can’t be good. Like dude you have moved the goalposts into the actual warp at this point. You have nothing and it shows. It just keeps coming back to ‘go ahead and post them then’. Like I know you’re some Hong Kong turbogamer translating my posts but come on actually. Its a pathetic non starter if that is your entire argument. This is why everyone has disengaged with you. Because you are ignorant.
Your frustration is misdirected. The ‘27 weapons’ analogy was yours - I merely pointed out that artificially excluding top-tier options doesn’t prove viability. True strength is measured against the best available tools, not by creating artificial sandboxes where mediocrity can pretend to excel
The Hellbore’s limitations remain: inferior burst damage compared to plasma/bolter, less team utility than meta builds, and no distinctive role it excels at. You call this ‘ignorance’ - I call it recognizing objective power disparities. When every serious discussion returns to the same fundamental question - ‘what does this build do better?’ - and you cannot answer, perhaps the problem isn’t my analysis but your attachment to an underperforming weapon.
