Honestly you lost me when you obsessively posted about “dpm” while sharing screenshots of time inefficient h40s with bloated damage numbers. Either you’re spending far too much time clearing in order to inflate the damage numbers on your builds or your builds are not as good as you claim them to be. Either way, pick up the pace before you go around saying “your build’s dpm is too low for havoc, a mode that can be cleared by babies”
Exe helbore vet is a constant beam of backline dps that clears specials and elites for the team with little to no attrition for the team. Frontline vet is all about bursts of dps directly to what’s in front of you. One is better for the defensive meta, which is about constant aoe stagger tools and crowd control from one group of players and high single target dps focus from another group of players, often swapping roles mid fight. The other is better for a hyper aggressive meta, which means rushing through levels to chokepoints and betting everything on momentary bursts of damage before moving forward or kiting, both of which will reduce your dps. One is much safer and leads to easy clears, the other gives bragging rights and makes for cool scoreboards.
It’s fine if you really believe and like your build, but you aren’t even able to share a 100% efficient melee vet build that uses all your points. You don’t even know a build that is THE strongest vet build, you only know one of the strongest, and that’s fine. This build is also one of the strongest.
the only one frustrated is your brain melting at the idea of not using those 2 weapons ad infinitum. again video games are not your job and some play them for fun and can clear content you deem impossible to clear with or without deviating from 2 loadouts.
this exact thing keeps happening post in post out yet you claim other people are mad for making it. I guess I’ll collect my win in the round about fashion. I’m never going to disagree with you that you can in fact win easier spamming gold toughness picking up every damage buff in vets tree tossing grenades every minute and using bolter or plasma. No one is going to make that argument. Only that yes you can win outside of doing exactly that for whatever your playtime is at now.
Calling people ‘brain melted’ for analyzing game mechanics says more about you than me. Fun and viability aren’t mutually exclusive - but claiming a suboptimal build is secretly strong helps nobody. When new players waste resources replicating ‘fun’ builds that crumble in high-level play, whose fault is that?
You keep conflating personal success with build quality. Yes, skilled players can make anything work - that doesn’t make weak weapons suddenly competitive. The Hellbore’s math remains unchanged: it trades utility for… what exactly? Sustained damage? So do a dozen better options.
This isn’t about rage - it’s about preventing misinformation. But by all means, take your ‘win’. Some of us actually care about helping players succeed.
I would say playing with gold toughness is the exact opposite of playing to get better (seriously, try not getting hit) but you do you. I’ll take you admitting you can play the game outside of swapping primaries on one loadout. I don’t think I’ll ever convince you to try it but at least you know other players have put in the work and can succeed.
I’d like to see what an efficient, time-effective Havoc 40 clear actually looks like. From what I understand, the faster you complete it, the higher the DPM tends to be—unless people just running away the whole time.
Additionally, I support build diversity, which is why I don’t use all my talent points. Different players have different preferences.
Your theoretical breakdown sounds reasonable, but the reality differs. The ‘constant beam of backline DPS’ you describe fails in practice when facing mixed hordes with multiple armored targets. While the Hellbore can pick off specials, so can every competent Veteran build - except meta builds do it while also providing team utility
The ‘defensive meta’ you described actually favors builds with both control AND burst damage, not sustained single-target DPS. When a Crusher pack pushes through your ‘constant beam’, you’ll wish you had plasma or bolter burst.
Your dichotomy between ‘safe clears’ and ‘bragging rights’ is false - the best builds provide both safety AND high impact. The Hellbore offers neither comparative safety nor outstanding results - just mediocrity with extra steps.
No, that’s not the case. Faster clear times are jusr faster, not necessarily higher dps. This is because you will hit the spawn cap way before the time you actually want to stop and clear, thus saving you time later.
Here’s a really old example in havoc 1.0. 16-17 minutes and a player has 160k damage on scoreboard and altogether probably just short of 1m damage the whole game. Not exactly 60k dpm from players. Newer havoc the numbers would be somewhat higher, which also means that it takes more time to complete.
I’m referring to a playstyle where the team progresses methodically through the map, eliminating every enemy systematically through direct confrontation with massive hordes. This approach truly tests both player skill and build strength. In high-difficulty content, the speed at which threats are neutralized directly reflects capability.
This is entirely different from exploiting mechanics to limit enemy spawns and reduce difficulty. How can you not distinguish between these two approaches?
I can’t believe you’re using such videos to discredit my scoreboard.
Okay, recap. So you’ve redefined what it means for a build to be good a dozen times now, you’re not obsessed with clear time despite making a big deal about it several times over a 40 minute video where there are several minutes of actual dps downtime (the player even goes afk waiting on their team). You insist that helbore is bad and brings no impact or support for the team, but when corrected, you go, “but other builds would have done more”. To add to this, when asked about a build that is better, you posted a generic screenshot of a potential build that is missing points and went “it’s all about player preference for what points and weapons they’d take”.
You’ve wasted far more time being incredibly incoherent, disingenuous, and disrespectful to multiple people. Maybe it’s a language barrier and you simply can’t interpret the point, but if so there’s really no point in ever talking to you again.
Brother its a video game why are you acting like its life or death to lose a Havoc match. And why are we talking about new players when discussing something being viable in Havoc 40?
It feels pretty safe to me when every Reaper and specialist dies in 1 shot before they get to attack.
No one is saying otherwise man. No one is trying to have an argument here but you. The entire discussion started because people love to act like ranged Vet is some unusable trash when its completely fine, and Helbore vet has been one of the strongest builds for awhile now. That doesn’t mean we’re saying its better than your cookie cutter Plasma Power sword6/ds4 shout slop 100000000k dpm build, just that its an option you can’t pretend to ignore and act like it doesn’t exist.
I’ve made myself perfectly clear before: I respect that you can clear Havoc 40 with the exe vet as many times as you want, but you shouldn’t label it as one of the strongest builds.
The gap between it and meta builds is too significant, and it completely lacks any distinct advantage (ammo efficiency? Meta Veterans don’t have ammo issues either).
You should admit that while using such a build with almost no team utility, neither you nor anyone else has ever provided a scoreboard proving its DPM is at least comparable to meta Veterans.
What I’ve been asking for, ultimately, is just one scoreboard as proof—yet no one has ever managed to deliver it.
I enjoy DT, but I have played it a lot and I’m pretty much done with the available content.
There are more penances but the work to get them is not something I feel excited about doing.
I enjoy the world of 40k and such, but I’m not hardcore or a pro player. My internet is also questionable so I have completely avoided Havoc.
I have the belief that with me not being all that good and possibly getting dc’ed I’d end up upsetting some die hard and then it’s just not worth it in higher difficulties.
I’ve also played enough to often go with some random builds to try things out for variety, so yeah, non optimal.
