You guys like to overstate the ability of weapons and abilities.
Hellbore is not easy to play, otherwise people would play it. I literary meet exactly zero Hellbore users in Havoc quickplay when I’m not playing Veteran myself. In auric I see maybe 1 Hellbore across dozens of matches.
There’s no way Hellbore with each shot loading is even remotely as “easy” as the clip I’ve shared. And even that kind of gameplay I wouldn’t call easy in a game where you’re constantly surrounded by melee enemies. Using melee Vet with a sidearm is way easier at this point than even playing the best marskman builds.
With most marskman weapons you need to hit like 70-80% headshots for these weapons to come even close to Bolter/Plasma Gun/Recon Lasgun and other easier builds. Meanwhile my average game with a Bolter on H40:
Recon Lasgun is not a marksman weapon. It’s a spray and pray weapon. Most of Recons damage comes from burn blessing on high Havoc.
Marksman weapons are single shot/burst autoguns, normal lasguns, Hellbore, normal shotguns. Weapons that rely on headshots and need to stay in ADS for the 90% of the match to deal good damage.
Something I like to say when I see comments like this, is that the perception of what’s “easy” and what’s “hard” differs depending on the skill level of the player
Shocking concept I know, but when someone at higher levels say “something is easy” means it has a lower skill ceiling (Just applying game fundamentals they already know), whereas your average player would think of a lower skill floor (Easy to pick up) when being mentioned something being easy
That is because the positioning and aiming Helbore requires, is something that requires gamesense and just a tad bit mechanical skill. Guess what, good DT players already have that, so of course they will find the Helbore “easy” to use, compared to something that requires a completely different set of skills like Thunder Hammer for example
Saying something is easy implies it’s easy for everyone. The words you’re looking for are “situational” and “skill-dependent”.
Easy loadouts are inherently easy to pick up and play at any skill level, because they provide not only ease of use, but also enough damage and survivability without putting much effort in.
Hellbore is a weapon that has only 1 out of 3.
It doesn’t have good survivability, because it’s not good to use with VOC, it restricts your movement and requires you to tunnel vision into ADS. It’s not easy to use, because of charging mechanics, headshot reliance and the fact that there are weapons in the game that shoot from hipfire which can easily outpace Hellbore, unless Hellbore user has insane weakspot accuracy and the other Veteran with a hipfire weapon is a worse player.
The only saving grace of Hellbore is its damage on mid mark for auric and heavy mark for Havoc. And in most games outside of premades, nobody is going to babysit you in the backline so you can shoot freely, so now you have to hit all the headshots while you’re constantly harassed by melee enemies and specials coming from behind.
To be fair how many of those weapons also get to shoot at crushers effectively?
As an aside on charge up I do think Weight of Fire makes the charge time pretty easily manageable (also you can be aiming while charging which effectively nullifies a lot of the DPS loss). That said I’d still REALLY like to see a charge speed talent somewhere in Vet tree. Seems very fitting when BOTH his unique guns have a charge up mechanic.
Tunnel Vision:Become Uninterruptible while charging Ranged Attacks. ADS now counts as Blocking and consumes Stamina until depleted. Remove 100% of ADS Movement Speed penalties. Replenish 1.5 Stamina per second while charging Ranged Attacks and additional 15% Stamina on Weakspot kill.
IMO nothing in this game is all that easy or hard to use, and people just get way too caught up with terms like ‘beginner-friendly’. Not a single weapon in this game has a move-set that’s so complicated you can’t learn it in a couple of games.
It’s just a lot of people choose not to learn and either left click spam or spam a flowchart combo.
So you’re saying some mythical Vet players I’ve never seen in my hours just casually hit Plague Ogryn’s or Chaos Spawn’s head consistently using Hellbore, while bosses are moving and attacking, displacing their hitboxes constantly? And they reach the same 300k-500k damage you can easily get with Bolter, as long as you’re above average at least?
I have even more mixed feelings about the new Havoc season. I simply got bored with the last one, and the only entertainment, so to speak, was the hope that a DH would emerge from a ritual and attack me on Psyker, but that was extremely rare.
Then, in the current season, I don’t even know. Either you have too easy modifiers and a map that makes it a cakewalk. Or you just have a crazy spawn director who sends out 16 crushers per minute, plus endless plasma spam. Worse yet, all of this will be spiced up with a healing and armor modifier, and that’s even more physically exhausting. Whereas before I could easily play for 16 hours without getting tired, now after one or two games my neck hurts because I’m focused like I’m in the Olympics, but it’s all good. But there’s a nuance to Havoс called a reward. Those who play the game a lot probably already have such a stockpile of resources that this allotted reward simply isn’t spent; it accumulates and accumulates, with nowhere to spend it. But that’s okay; it’s funny every time you win, you’re rewarded with a non-maximum item. Let me remind you that it was said that the higher the difficulty, the better the reward (though Havok wasn’t even in that patch), but that doesn’t change the essence of the matter, because in two months you’ll all be derang again and given nothing in return. It’s unpleasant and completely meaningless.
Another problem I personally have with Havoc is players who don’t understand what’s expected of them. Not long ago, after 8 hours of play, not a single Ogryn engaged in melee combat. He was standing farthest away with his damn Grenadier. It was so “fun” being alone on the Arbiter without help. And if I died, no one could help me because no one was around. The Ogryn was the last to die because he was farthest away. Even when they were being killed, they couldn’t take melee weapon; they were all level 30-40. But even funnier was when I picked an Ogryn without Havok and he just walked forward and absorbed all the damage. I haven’t been so proud of the Ogryns in a long time (we won).
The current “balance” and Havok are nothing more than a meaningless game of enemy health numbers and their numbers, which doesn’t reward you for your efforts.
One clip has a taunt rumbler ogryn which if on a good player will destroy bosses without any feedback from the rest of the team regardless of where they shoot. The other has 2 helbores and you happen to choose the lesser damage one.
Idk how you’d get 500k boss damage anyway in a meta comp unless you’re the sole person dealing with bosses, but stealthlot exists for that. Both games helbore is dealing with elites, with the first being top damage of the team and the second featuring most elite kills. These don’t really help your case imo.
Top damage? I only saw that it took him 40 minutes to deal 1,200+k damage total, which equals 30+k DPM. I can deal twice that DPM even carry smoke lol
These video proves that exe vet with helbore just a burden to the team in havoc40, dealing such low dpm under the protection of his teammates while providing no protection for his teammates.
Melee VOC vet can do better, deal.more damage and provide golden toughness for teammates
40 minutes for a run that involves a bubble smyker is completely normal. Teams move slow when they use slow things. There’s parts in the video where they literally go afk or check their steam messages as well as time where they are literally just shooting specials waiting for the team to move forward or kill a boss. lots of downtime in the run if you actually watch the video you guys are using as evidence that the weapon that top damage in the run is actually bad.
I’m sure voc would’ve done so much better considering the team comp is tauntgryn with chorus support and bubble shield regen and damage reduction with anything that can be staggered stuck in stagger state due to smite.
Auric Damnation and Maelstorm becoming harder was a good move, but high havoc (35-40) is a slog fest now, especially if we get the heal modifier.
The constant onslaught from waves of specials and elites just becomes boring after like 10 minutes, you are forced to rush trough the map and instead of feeling pride or accomplishment I only feel a relief for being finally freed from that constant crapstorm.
Since the modifiers doesn’t really change that much on the gameplay (DPS check…) it’s not a challenge it’s just a windmill fight that we need to find the escape from as quikcly as possible.
What do you mean their damage is too low? They’re the top damage of their team. It’s low for the time because they were playing super slow and non-aggressive, which is pretty much how pubs play, and how the meta has slowly become since 1.0.
Sure, they could’ve speedran havoc and cleared it in 10 minutes with a more impressive score, but if you add up all the downtime they have from waiting on their team it’s probably roughly 25 minutes of actual dps and 15 minutes of filler, because that’s just how havoc plays when you bring extremely passive and safe builds.
