You might be. I’ve always had at least 1 other good person in my Aurics.
That’s all it really takes. Duos are very doable even on maelstrom.
The other 2 just have to actively not sabotage you by getting salty (“WHY YOU NO PICK ME UP?!?!?!?!” as they sit in sniper LoS, and on fire) then deciding to pick up all your ammo, or using fire barrels to steal med pips (this is a thing that actually happened).
In most of those scoreboards, your teammates weren’t horribly under level, and the lowest person didn’t always do the worst either. You’re just outplaying them, usually by a nice fat margin. Well done, btw.
I don’t think I could get behind a level cap higher than 100, for example.
How high do you think the cap should be for the hardest Auric Maelstroms?
Fair point and I don’t mean to imply that the difference in performance is always egregious, but rather that it is an indication that players of different strata are bundled too closely together when maybe things should be slightly more staggered.
After reading the replies here and doing some thinking, I’m not sure a conventional level increase is the right way to go. Someone suggested unlocking higher difficulties through penances on your current highest difficulty, which I think could be a good approach if done in a balanced way where it requires you to commit to doing it but also without being overbearing or pedantic in what it asks you to do. A simple “complete 10x missions in a row without dying on difficulty X to unlock difficulty Y” I think could be a decent shout. Throw in some frame unlocks to go with and you have your visual aspect done too. I’d have to do some more thinking on how you’d implement that at this stage but if there is ever a Tier 6 difficulty I would go as far as to say something like this has to be implemented alongside it. @Elodie mentioned that the Karnak twins mission basically requires friends to be accomplished is kind of proof of that. If people who knew what that mission requires of you and was able to put that up were the ones to play it, that would not be the case as much as it presently is.
then everyone would have a wonderful time playing and enjoying the game on the difficulty he belongs.
reality´s best example is enjoyed in a gym when you have to rescue a stickboy from under 100kg barbells and wonder how he set the bar free in the fist place.
I’m a big fan of penances doing more in the game in general, so I could get behind this.
Somewhat off topic, but I’d love for penance score to increase the lowest possible item score in the shops as well. I’m thinking max penance score takes the lowest item score to 350 or 360.
i will admit there are situations in which i would rather have a bot, and that I block people who keep rejoining as a means to avoid a down, however;
Despite possibly losing 30 minutes of effort because Carrying is extremely difficult for me, I don’t mind when newbies show up in games because they’re going to get stepped on and feel useless and not have any fun, and as a result, go back to malice or wherever it was that they came from.
I would propose for aurics that under no circumstances should a <30 be capable of joining them.
unless they, for whatever inconceivable reason, don’t.
as of now i encountered numerous usual suspects in auric maelstrom lobbies, were they clearly had no business.
repeatedly…
they add a level or two in the meantime riding others backs but given their hair pulling bad performance, when i was dumb enough to give em the benefit of doubt against my better judgment, they just dont care.
they just leech on teams with the dillusion that THIS has to be normal game experience in higher difficulties and matches simply fail by higher forces out of their control, like its the most normal thing in the world.
sheer luck would have them see the end of such a match and they declare a 5% success rate effiecient,fun and maelstrom not meant to be beaten regularly.
no self reflection, no self evaluation, just a mindset that if there is a highest setting, they belong there for the sheer sake of it existing.
its like a digital version of the german phrase:" seelig sind die armen im geiste"
They almost never do as people are silly and self-sabotaging, and just carry them repeatedly.
Welcome to the club of realizing they don’t care.
This is a big one, there’s a disconnect, sometimes from ignorance, usually out of malice, that going down 10 times and facetanking everything in a match is “normal” and acceptable. Grabbing that big ammo for 10 flamer rounds? Normal. Deploying a med crate because you and only you are missing 20% HP? Normal. etc. etc.
Fun story: yesterday we had a level ~50 vet with orange weapons with random stuff but nothing rerolled, not a single perk or blessing. So I says to him I says:" Hey FYI you can replace 2 thigns on your weapons, 1 perk+1 blessing or 2 of the same".
He replies, “Ya I know, out of plasteel” so we carry him, basically 2.5 manned it
The very next match the same dude with nothing rerolled after we got just shy of 800 plasteel (we’re thorough), I ask why he didn’t change anything after he said the only reason was plasteel, he didn’t reply so we left. My point is even simple things like this, going in with white weapons, random blues mostly, happen all the time in HiSTG and Maelstroms too.
They know exactly what they’re doing, they just don’t care because there’s nothing blocking them from doing it, including other players who not only don’t votekick, they actively enable and encourage them with free carries.
This is pretty much the best option imo
Although i like the idea of making victorys more meaningful with a ranking system i disagree because one of my favorite things is playing with terrible players. Watching them go down over and over to the dumbest things is just too satisfying to watch and its too much fun to be alone while everyone is dead as they watch me make my way to their bodies next respawn position. Sometimes i leave games if i know everyone in the game is good cus its just too boring that way. Although if there was a ranking system i doubt i would even do random matchmaking anymore and just roll with a 4 man squad that can never lose.
I normally disagree with mechanical gates. It can be very frustrating as an experienced player to be locked out of the content you enjoy for otherwise arbitrary reasons but…
I just had 3 games in a row on Heresy (4pip) thrown by randos who frankly dont know the mechanics of the game…
So…while I agree that all sucks to deal with, I would like to note we’re talking about a coop PvE game in a universe where the players are bombarded with messages like…
Blessed are they without introspection, for they shall know no doubt. Ignorance is thy best defence. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. Understanding weakens the will to act. The seeds of heresy are planted in the minds of the enlightened. Knowledge brings us closer to annihilation. Zeal is it’s own reward. Let thy weapon be zeal, and thy armour contempt. You need understand nothing to do your duty. Let Faith trample Reason. Life is measured not in years, but by the deeds of the faithful. Lack of Faith is tantamount to Treason. Do not shy the hopeless fight, for endeavour is its own reward. Faith needs no Excuse. No man died in the Emperor’s service that died in vain. There is no greater honor than to die for the Emperor’s cause. Timidity begets indecision; indecision begets treachery. Without fear or falter, do thy duty. The Imperium endures through faith and sacrifice. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Seems like these players are taking the game in the spirit it’s being presented.
I’ll have to firmly disagree that most of it is malicious. I just think it’s people being egregiously absent minded and, for whatever plethora of possible reasons, just don’t think too deeply about most things in life. I’ll double down on it being an actual act of rudeness and inconsideration when it affects other people, but I doubt 90% of the culprits do it with that specific intention.
@Molonious I keep seeing you fallback on the lore to explain the actions of real world people in different threads and I don’t know why. Everyone playing this game is a person in this reality. We can’t account for their actions using lore from Warhammer 40k, obviously.
judging from their in match attention span, i seriously doubt they even bother to read.
being dead weight in pve game is even worse since when pvp mechanics allows me to shoot them at my leisure, they are free xp.
This game’s fundamental value proposition and premise is selling lifetime admission for virtual visits to Warhammer-land in a cooperative setting, ideally with their friends, and then selling them outfits for their e-action-figures to cosplay in. That premise matters, it’s what expectations are built on and how people set their mind coming into the game. Much like tabletop 40k, nobody would play this game without that lore. The overwhelmingly vast majority of players aren’t drawn to Fatshark games on the strength of their renowned polished gameplay and feature-complete experience (the MTX store works though!), or the uniquely difficult and elite gameplay (this isn’t Elden Ring), it’s because they nail the immersion factor for GW universes.
If this were “Fatshark’s Battleclub Fifty Million: Blackwave”, it would be a ghost-town. We wouldn’t be having this conversation, simple as. Deeprock Galactic for instance has to put orders of magnitude more effort into engaging players than Darktide does because it doesn’t have that famous IP to trade on. This game’s target market isn’t general action shooter fans, it isn’t elite competitive gamers, it isn’t even after the same slice of Coop fans as games like L4D or DRG, it’s specifically catering to 40k fans who are already into the setting.
When the lore and premise blast things at players, repeatedly and directly, they’re going to play along. That’s part of the whole immersion thing that sells this product. Same way you get people screaming “WAAAAAGH!” out loud a tabletop events when their Orks get their extra charge move, or people constantly shouting “Rock and Stone!” and always make sure to bring Doretta back at the end of the mission in Deeprock despite it having no bearing on mission completion/rewards. People throwing themselves into stupid fights that gets lots of people killed in stupid ways is a not-so-subtle part of that experience. That can suck and be frustrating (much like hearing people scream “WAAAAAAGH!” repeatedly in crowded rooms at tabletop 40k events) but that may be exactly what attracts some people, and doesn’t mean it’s out of sync with the premise the game is selling or needs fixing.
TL;DR If we were talking abstract game design theory, sure, you’re totally right here. But we’re not, we’re talking a specific software service/game built to provide immersion in an IP to players who are interested in that IP, and that a game that wouldn’t exist apart from said IP. When that IP blasts messages at players, many are going to play along, and that’s not necessarily a design problem.
Aye, it can be infuriating and there are definitely some…special players in this game, but also don’t forget, the option to field execute (boot/kick) is always there.
Whilst what success there is of the tide games is certainly in considerable part due to the well put together renditions of the Warhammer universes, it’s far more due to the gameplay loop. If the game played like ass which, despite its problems, it doesn’t, no one would play it either. I think you’re greatly overthinking and overestimating the lore aspect here. Are we saying that some considerable portion of Ogryn players are going to act moronic because that’s what they’re like in the lore? I think that’s an incredible leap to be quite frank. They might do some Ogryn speak in the chat, but I reckon that’s about the extent of it. I don’t know of anyone who abandons their reason on account of the lore.
I’m not discounting the value of the lore. I love 40k as much as anyone else who’s delved into the countless books etc, but I think it verges on a completely negligible factor when it comes to the specific issue this thread is about.
The core of the problem remains the fact that the game incentivizes low ranking players to swing above their weight class and forces the high ranking players to pick up their slack. I still don’t know what that has to do with the lore.
Here’s the crux…as far as the both the lore and basic value proposition of the game as a visit to warhammer-land go…that’s not necessarily actually a problem, it’s a reflection of the universe given form through player action.
As far what it has to do with the lore: Elite veterans being forced to carry or endure, in spite of incapable allies, as they’re all thrown into the same meatgrinder, is exactly what’s being promised in many instances. Nowhere does the game promise you a team of highly experienced and well equipped teammates executing well practiced mission runs for routine victory, it promises unrelenting tide of violence alongside other Reject prison scum wielding scavenged battlefield weapons with limited life expectancies, and many people will play as such.
Again, I’ll point to Deep Rock Galactic, like Darktide it’s a 4 person coop survival action shooter with four distinct classes and a variety of mission types. Doretta is a mining machine in one of the missions. It blows up at the end and its head is a separate part that can be picked up. Bringing the head back does absolutely nothing, doing so occupies a player while they carry it, it brings no reward, it triggers no dialogue, and forms no part of any mission objective. And yet, without fail, most every time players will bring the head and do their utmost to bring Doretta home. They will fail and lose missions over it they otherwise could have won, because of the game’s narrative and lore. These things matter. Doesn’t mean Ogryn need to go around acting literally stupid in Darktide, but if literally everything surrounding the game is screaming “disregard rational thinking, your life is worthless, death means nothing, go out with a bang”, people are going to feel less bad about taking on fights they may not be ready for than they would be in other games, and the game allowing them to do so isn’t necessarily wrong.
It’s also consistent with GW’s other products and games, where they drive home a “forge the narrative” message over encouraging tight and competitive gameplay. For years I was frustrated about problems with tabletop 40k’s rules until I eventually realized and accepted that the tabletop game was just a vehicle to sell plastic models and give people an excuse to play with their toys in memorable ways as opposed to a coherently designed and well written competitive wargame tailored for pickup/tournament play.
While yes, Darktide’s basic gameplay loop is exquisite, I don’t know any Darktide players that weren’t already 40k fans and as far as I can tell on Discord/these forums/elsewhere, that’s pretty ubiquitous. Lots of games have fantastic aspects or well crafted cores…and go nowhere, my Steam library is full of great games I’ve never played, but I’ve played some pretty mediocre 40k games. Fatshark’s non-GW games are a decade behind it and not really anything most people would ever recognize, certainly not anything I could say I’ve played.
I wonder if this phenomenon of under powered characters in high difficulty games is at all regional or based on time of day?
I play in the later evenings on the eastern US time zone (usually between 9pm and midnight).
Since this discussion has been going I don’t recall seeing a single character below about level 60 (using true level mod). The vast majority are over 100, and frequently over 200.
When do people play? Maybe these “clueless underleveled” people are kids playing earlier in the day? I don’t get it and frankly just haven’t seen what the commenters are experiencing here.
What i have noticed is that problem become bigger when player base drops. So it seems, not only new players being rejected by trash crafting system. But also veterans who have nothing to do in the game. No new difficulties, no content, can’t pick any map. Cause back in the days before 13 patch, when online was 3k people, this problem of noobs jumping the highest difficulty still was there.
I mean I get what you’re saying, but this whole point only makes sense if most people actually thought about this stuff to that extent, which I absolutely don’t believe they do. Most people that are autopiloting through this game in a mostly thoughtless matter I think it’s at least pretty safe to assume are going entirely off of simple motivations like ordos dockets, materials and new weapons. What you’re saying also doesn’t change any of the facts mentioned by people so far, it only offers what I would, at best, consider a somewhat plausible explanation for it. Either way, it’s still a problem to some extent to a significant portion of the playerbase.
And also, whatever cool, visceral language was used by the devs/publisher to advertise the game was almost certainly just that; advertisement. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that it’s meant to be taken quite so literally. And do we really need them to explicitly say that the gameplay loop revolves around trying to achieve success? Is that not inherently plainly obvious?
I still am not convinced that any of what you’ve said constitutes valid reasons why things should remain as they are. Clearly there are some who care little, and some who care more. I still think the devs should take some simple steps to ensure both parties are mostly satisfied with their experience.