I will leave this here. This was a t5 maelstrom specials/nurgles mission that a level 18 and 22 joined and proceeded to die about 15 times each. Carried them all the way to the end but couldn’t do the scanning alone unfortunately.
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Since I wrote my opinion on this a couple of times already I’ll just join the screenshot train. This is also T5 Maelstrom. I play those time to time and usually there is at least one lvl. 15-20 player. Gate keeping should not be too harsh but letting these low lvl. players into T5 high intensity or Maelstrom is just too optimistic. I don’t think they belong there nor they have a good experience overall.
Give them something to work towards - like win 5 Heresy games penance that would unlock Damnation, then win 5 Damnation games penance to unlock T5 high int. and Malestrom etc.
So this is how much a lvl 18 character can contribute to the game:
(I’m a Vet main who barely plays Zealot so not my strongest game but still)
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you’re projecting that loosing counts as time wasted.
to add to that many people would consider gaming in general a time waste the fact that you like to actually get something out of the time you spend gameing/grinding or want some sort of progress is purely subjective.
The following happens (objectively) when you lose a round:
- You gain no materials.
- No ordo dockets.
- No experience.
- No emperor’s gift.
On the flipside, all of those things happen when you win. The game is not designed with losing being the “intent” of playing it. Those things are not subjective. Whatever a person might feel they gain from a lost round, is.
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having fun or growing/learing just as an example, very much things you can have while loosing and very much can value higher than currencies that don’t translate into progression consistently.
first of loosing can be part of the intention without, being the main intention, games don’t have to be designed with an intention that comes to fruition 100% of the time.
second, pure speculation on your part, unless you have some quote of some representative for the design team. if you don’t your observations, are just pure subjective observations.
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So, you’re not wrong here, and I totally feel the frustration, but what about that is actually a design problem given the way the game is presented? It’s a coop PvE game where the player’s are prison scum under suspended sentence of death, referred to as “Rejects”, and used as expendable shock troops in the private army of an Inquisitor in ad-hoc raids into fortified enemy positions with scavenged weapons, in a universe where mindless sacrifice in the name of Zeal is considered to be a laudable and commendable thing. Experienced operatives being stuck in with raving lunatics seems par for the course.
We can look to recent world events, such as the city of Bakhmut, to see prison scum being herded into vicious high intensity combat acting as bullet sponges for elite veterans “carrying” the mission, resulting in horrifying casualties to achieve battlefield objectives (with lots of failure), that’s what the Rejects are up to in Darktide. It sucks…but the 40k universe sucks, having to carry shitty overzealous teammates doesn’t feel at all out of place.
LOSING, 1 O
And yes it’s a waste of time when it was completely avoidable.
good that you feel that way, but its not an objective truth.
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I am not taking a stand against people learning things while they play, so I don’t know why you bring this up.
I think you somewhat misunderstand what I’m saying. The games missions are set up with the objectives, that when completed, lead to a victory. That is the formula of the game on its most basic level. This, I don’t think, is a controversial analysis. It’s how 90% of these types of coop games are set up on the, again, most basic level. That is what I mean by the “intent” not being defeat. Obviously, they will happen and are an inexorable part of the game, but they’re not something to strive for. Again, I don’t think this is a controversial take. No one is trying to lose on purpose.
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We can get semantic as hell about what is objective vs subjective but I think if we’re all being honest, that’s verging on obtuse in this conversation.
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to back up your argumentation in the original post you set up “objectiv” truths, and i pointed out that one you described wasn’t, thats all this is.
talking about intent of someone is pretty much irrelevant. what constitutes “wasting time” is a feeling,
hence subjective.
noticed later:
objetivity is something no one can deny, no matter what, i take it serious if someone falsely tries to abuse it to strengthen their position (not saying it was ill intended or deliberately done here)(and yes i’m aware that i’m a stickler)
And I’m saying that arguing about things you claim are subjective is pointless. Thus I listed objective things that are clear and tangible effects of losing. Whatever else you then claim, is itself subjective, and thus pointless to even bring up as you can feel whatever type of way you want and it matters to no one and changes none of the objective things I mentioned.
The level cap could be a little higher, and in turn the barrier to get into Auric would be a little higher.
I’m not really in favor of doing anything drastic to address this issue. It’s not really a problem except in some extreme edge cases, and even then, it can be fun trying to carry a group headless chickens to the goal (they’re probably dead most of the run, so headless is a good metaphor) as long as it isn’t happening constantly. If it’s happening constantly, one might as well be playing the solo mod.
If you want to have a higher completion rate, strive to be the person that clutches runs. A little dead weight is good resistance training.
I think the bigger problem is that there is a huge difference between some of the different Maelstrom modifiers, and having the barrier to entry on all of them being a flat 30 in Auric is obviously just Fatshark taking the path of least resistance and avoiding having to put any real thought behind it.
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Picked sort of agree.
You’re right that in many other games, there are mechanics to limit access to the hardest content. Such as item level requirements, party finders flags like “has completed this activity before” etc. And some people definitely don’t have any business being on T5+. I’m not talking about newbies who do poorly but at least try. I mean people who are completely oblivious to the most basic of things like paying attention to literally any sound cues, tags, resources like ammo & medkits & medstations etc.
But even then, Darktide is not one of those other games. T5+ isn’t anywhere near so hard as to require a full team of competent people all with fully optimized builds. Ofc the difference in performance and skill in DT is rather extreme, so I can understand why someone else (not talking about OP or anyone else in this thread mind) with just middling experience, but a grasp of the basics could disagree. A player who can just barely carry their own weight would be completely at the mercy of their teammates. Us experienced people have the benefit of bringing ourselves into every match after all, and a typical T5+ with most any build is ultimately easy enough, so long as there’s at least someone alive paying attention to saving you from the soundless specials. 
But I can only speak from my own perspective.
tldr; I think if and when DT gets a T6 difficulty, some gatekeeping should be added. What kind though is a good question. I’ve seen plenty of true level 200+ players who are absolutely clueless, and plenty of TL 40 ones who are amazing. Sure they could be a main & alt respectively, or any number of things, but still.
But whatever that mechanic is, it can’t be too severe. The last thing I want is to turn DT into some sweaty “play with friends only” game like Destiny, where the only way to even access high end content at all is to use 3:rd party apps like Discord to find teammates… as an example. The accessibility & ease, not depending on friends & guilds, and even that chance for wonky & fun randomness in those precious pub games is what makes the DT work for me.
The Karnak Twins T5 hard mode basically requiring friends to do it with was already too much. I got lucky and had friends able and willing and even passed on the first try sure. But I’ve played far too many games where that didn’t turn out so well, and instead I found myself locked out of content I more than had enough skill to do only because I didn’t have the people for it, or didn’t want to bother with hassling with 3:rd party apps or spamming group finder requests for 2h to do it.
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Losing, when it was avoidable is NOT a waste of time? Which part is not an objective truth exactly?
That’s going to depend entirely on how you value your time. I’ve lost plenty of games in dumb ways with friends where I don’t regret the time at all. If you’re out grinding for something, yeah that can feel like a total waste, but if you’re just derping with pals winning and losing doesn’t mean a whole lot.
I can appreciate that, but that’s not what the context was here we were talking about pugs hence OP title.
Aurics hand out too much XP and the “new” players are anywhere from 0 to +200 now.
This is what no gating looks like on the weekends: 3rd player in a row, blue, green and now white weapons, on HiSTG:
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You can steer back games from terrible players pretty easy, some loadouts will just be a buckle up and sit tight for those people who died. Maybe they can learn fundamentals watching if they don’t tab out. Its those stupid join in rounds where you’re about to be grabbed by a chaos spawn as a bomber threw a grenade the second you join in for a bot and die before you get control that need to die in a fire and no amount of proper skill can avoid that. Or if you might be in a fighting position your gun is unloaded and you have no grenades. Why must the emperor forsake us so.
I wanted to refrain from posting stuff like this as it will inevitably be interpreted as bragging by some, but as it has been brought up in different ways so many times now, let me present these:
I have probably 10x as many of these that I obviously wont all upload. To reiterate, this is not to brag but to highlight that the imbalance of performance and skill is not a “rare” or “edge case” thing at all, it’s the majority of games. At least for me. Maybe I’m just exceptionally unlucky in my matchmaking, but I doubt it.
There’s plenty of clutching going around. Too much, in fact, which is the whole point I’m making.
I agree with this.
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loosing a match with a valuable team were 3 others gave their best and we failed, yes i learned usually i bit from it.
loosing though with a dead weight actively sabotaging the match by simply being a drain on ressources and roadblock for advancing so you get swarmed more often is not only a waste of time but in insult to everyone else putting his best effort into the success of the round.
think soccer player aiming for his own goalkeeper on purpose multiple times.
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