He needs to be brought back to 1.07 power to be worth picking at all, and even then it wouldnt hurt to remove the clunkiness of his longbow and ult.
5 Likes
I agree with that.
4 Likes
Yeah thatās all anyoneās saying afaict. Basically āhe was perfect, wtf o.Oā
āHis boss damage is ok, no longer the bestā
This is the problemā¦ boss and patrol killing were his job and now he has lost his role.
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Where are you getting that? Huntsman is not new for me, Iāve been playing him for awhile now, and one of my friends that I play with regularly does a lot of HM as well. I didnāt just pick him up yesterday for the first time.
I think you can take out a CW with an ult headshot with the handgun, but Iāll have to test again to make sure. I do agree though I think an ult headshot should be able to take down a CW with handgun or bow.
You make a good point about shade too; I think taking down a CW in one hit with a backstab is okay, but being able to just boop them from the front feels a bit cheese.
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He hasnāt lost his role, so what his boss damage is second best (second to Shade, a freaking elven assassin whose entire purpose is taking out strong single targets) so now heās useless? Come on now. If you spec huntsman for boss killing and use concoction so that you get the strength potion boost AND a quick recharge for a second ult he still melts them, just not in a ridiculous 5-10 second window like before, and can do so from the relative safety of range. Shade has to get up close and personal, higher risk for higher reward. Even shade has to spec specifically for boss killing and have a potion and have the stars align in terms of positioning to really be able to melt a bossā¦ Iāve had plenty of times as shade where I activated stealth and the boss suddenly decided to chase someone halfway across the map and I couldnāt catch up in time, so ult wasted and without it boss damage is just okay. Huntsman has an advantage in non-ult steady boss damage.
Heās also still very strong against patrols, I would say he just no longer trivializes them like before. I think thatās a good thing.
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Donāt think he trivialized them in 1.0.7. CW took 2 body shots to die, the time wasnāt enough to delete the whole patrol, just thin them out. Donāt know, that seemed rather balanced and more importantly: it was consistent, something you could rely on.
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How does he currently fair? How many bodyshots does it take atm with and without ult?
In 3 minutes shade gets 3 ults hobo gets 2.
Shade can kill 3 - 6 CW so to match that hobo would need to kill at maximum 3 CW per ult.
If he can do that he would be equal for top assassin in my opinion.
Obviously there are differences between the two ults.
Melee/range
Instant damage/duration damage
Ectā¦
But I think it is playstyle and skill that makes each of these a positive or negative, and it becomes much more a matter of preference at this point.
I donāt think anyone other than the shade can really compare in terms of CW kills.
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Good points and I think lowering huntsman ult cooldown to match shade would be a good balance tweak.
That and removing the crouch animation when triggering ult, that is such a pain in the behind and serves only to waste 1 second of the ult trying to aim
I really think that you should be rewarded for headshots at least, makes huntsman more skill dependent, as hitting bodyshots on CW is relatively easy, while headshots are hard. But they gave handgun/longbow, which had weak already weak headshot multipliers even worse ones.
I donāt agree. Maybe his damage against boss is slightly higher than BH and Pyro (maybe) but now it isnāt an enough trade off.
HS has too many disadvantages in comparison with these two career:
- terrible weapons swap;
- his ranged weapons have weak crowd control;
- he hasnāt real infinite ammunitions;
- his weapons are slow (slow rate of fire, not istant-fire);
- he needs aim and, to kill some specials like Globadier, Packmaster, Leech and Stormer he needs also an headshot.
Furthermore, three arrows to kill a CW under active, is too much.
18% will let him kill a Packmaster with a bodyshot. Youāre also assuming Huntsman is limited to the Longbow; a properly rolled Handgun (all you need is 18% vs. Infantry) will kill every special in the game with a body shot, including the Packmaster after 1.0.8.2ās 1.5x damage vs. Monsters buff. For horde clear, Blunderbuss with spread reduction is phenomenal, especially after they fixed how headshots work with shotguns, and the bow isnāt bad either if you can line up a horde.
Huntsman has always been a fine class, including after this patch. Heās possibly the best elite deleter in the game, and his strong range even lets him get away with using Kruberās otherwise underutilized melee weapons, such and the short and longswords. This aspect of him wasnāt effected at all by the nerf, and if you use the handgun, his ability to kill specials was even buffed.
My main issue with the recent heavy handed nerfs is that is gives him almost no reason to use Hunterās Prowl anymore; in particular, it makes him near worthless against Chaos Warriors. For a measly 1.5x-1.8x damage buff you get your aim messed up (thanks to the crouching animation), your fov reduced, your movement slowed, and a terrible screen effect applied that has a chance of persisting permanently. Sure, you can pop it against a boss for a little more damage, but Iāve been using it more just for the invisibility now, to re-position or help a downed teammate. Itās simply not an interesting or fun active anymore.
I feel like his killing power during his active was in a good place pre-1.0.8. He could down, on average, two Chaos Warriors during an active with the Longbow or Handgun, and while his boss DPS was good, it wasnāt a game-breaking issue. Allowing crits during his active made it more interesting to use, however. Suddenly, it became a reliable way to get ammo back, which in a game where multiple other classes have easy access to infinite ammo, I donāt see as an issue, or a way to further reduce its cooldown with Resourceful Combatant. This last point even allowed some pretty fun shenanigans with the Reapeater Handgun, finally giving it a place in the game. Many of these points are true for Ranger Bardin, as well.
So how do we compromise? I would suggest keeping the linearization of damage buffs, but give it back guaranteed crits. Iād even go as far as to remove the damage buff altogether, which would still result in the ~1.5x damage boost we see now after crits, but allow for better Chaos Warrior killing power. Iād also suggest reverting the Handgun buff vs. Monsters, but keeping the headshot bonus. Killing a Packmaster in a single shot is maybe too much. Obviously, Iād also give guaranteed crits back to Ranger Bardinās smokebomb. These changes should help with his ability to kill Chaos Warriors, as well as his ammo/active economy, while keeping his boss damage in line.
The alternative to this is a complete rework of Hunterās Prowl. Someone here made a suggestion I was partial to; the timer for the damage buff only activates after his first shot, freely giving him time to position while invisible without sacrificing damage. Unfortunately, I donāt see any major ability reworks in the mix for quite some time.
5 Likes
The handgun didnāt get any headshot bonus. The ābonusā they are refering to is because they reduced the headshot damage, which would have resulted in a .25 bonus.
If they are going to keep the linearization, i think they really need to give it at least back itās headshot damage (because the current lower headshot damage seems to be the result of it).
As a bit of an explanation:
Previously they would go:
1
1.5 (boss headshots)
1.7 (regular headshots/crits)
1.85 (boss headshot+crit)
2 (regular headshot+crit)
Now itās
1
1.25 (boss headshot, overridden on the handgun by 1.5)
1.5 (regular headshots/crits)
1.75 (boss headshot/crit, idk how this interacts with handgun)
2 (regular headshot+crit)
I have honestly no clue if this in any way affects str pots or the ult damage modifier.
But i really strongly disagree with nerfing the already low headshot damage modifier, it should be more rewarding to land those, not less.
Sure, but so far as I can understand, the change to the āboost power curveā is related directly to how headshots interact with other power boosts, such as strength potions or Hunterās Prowl. I thought the change from .25 to .5 resulted in a net buff to unmodified headshot damage vs. Monsters? The way you describe it, it wouldnāt have changed. However, overall headshot damage would still be increased due to the flat 1.5x damage buff vs. Monsters.
I still kill a Chaos Warrior in 3 unmodified handgun headshots, both before and after this patch. If the changes to this āboost power curveā affected headshot damage against everything, is this simply a coincidence?
Regardless, I fully agree that you should be rewarded for headshots with the Handgun. Itās about the only one of Kruberās ranged weapons which with you can pull them off with any reliability, but thereās currently no reason to do so except versus Bosses and Chaos Warriors or to trigger his level 15 talent. The player deserves to be rewarded for it.
As i said, no clue how this in any way works with that.
All i can tell is that the ācurveā used to be:
0/0.5/0.7/0.85/1
And the new ācurveā is:
0/0.25/0.5/0.75/1
Basically i found these numbers and they matched up exactly with the damage buffs i described for this and other weapons. I canāt actually say anything else about them.
I personally have little issue with having str pots have less of an impact, or generally the scaling being more linear, but i absolutely disagree with the headshot nerf.
I thought the change from .25 to .5 resulted in a net buff to unmodified headshot damage vs. Monsters? The way you describe it, it wouldnāt have changed. However, overall headshot damage would still be increased due to the flat 1.5x damage buff vs. Monsters.
Headshot damage to monsters is unchanged, headshot damage to everything else is nerfed.
I still kill a Chaos Warrior in 3 unmodified handgun headshots, both before and after this patch.
It will need 4 shots without any +power afaik, unable to hit the 2-shot breakpoint (which required 38%). Generally makes it less rewarding to hit the headshots, which i think is some nonsense.
Also makes 2-shotting maulers with headshots a lot more difficult, so itās back to bodyshotting them, one of the unique features of the handgun removed.
4 Likes
I went back into the game to test again, and I absolutely still kill a Chaos Warrior with 3 headshots, and a Mauler with 2, without any power vs. Chaos/Armoured modifiers on my equipment. I donāt mean to say youāre wrong; youāve corrected me before, but itās inconsistent with my observations. How sure are you that it takes 4 headshots to kill a Chaos Warrior?
Like 80-90%
Math works out, i tested it ingame just now also worked out. Took 4 shots.
Less so on the maulers, hitting 2 headshots on them is a lot harder because of how they bob and weave and my bots liked to attack them moreso than CWs, which they seem to ignore at range at least.
Edit:
Fairly certain on maulers too. They even survived headshot+bodyshot (with the bodyshot doing 51 damage, the headshot has to be below 39, which means well below the 45 mark required to 2-shot).
Keep in mind they count as infantry even on headshots.
Edit nr2:
Went ingame, shot once, died, 38 damage on score-card, exactly as predicted by the math.
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It seems youāre right. Iād tested it with both Kruber and Bardin, and three Chaos Warriors still died to three shots, but I must have been getting at least 1 crit every time. 5 Chaos Warriors later, it finally took me 4 headshots to kill one. Thatās a real shame, Iām honestly more upset by this decision than Iād ever be about any reduction in boss DPS. Why further disincentivize headshots on a class that already sees very little benefit from them?
Youāre right about Maulers being infantry. However, Maulers have 90 health, so being able to 2 shot them implied doing at least 45 damage, after my 20% vs. Infantry multiplier, meaning at least 37.5 base headshot damage, just shy of the 40 required to 3 shot a Chaos Warrior. So far as I can tell, handgun has the same damage profile against both armoured and infantry, but Iāve never fully understood how damage reduction from āSuper Armourā works, especially for Maulers. This could mean base damage headshot damage may be between 37.5-49, though, making the required 40 damage to kill a Chaos Warrior in 3 headshots an easy breakpoint to hit. Unfortunately, Iām too tired to test it tonight.
Regardless, thanks for the information. Itās been quite informative. Iād revise my original post to call for the removal of the headshot damage change as well.
Edit:
Saw your edit just now. Seems it works out as predicted. Considering you should run at least 18% vs. Infantry for Wizards and Gasrats, Mauler damage shouldnāt be affected by the change. Reaching 40 damage vs. Chaos warriors, while reachable, is slightly annoying, if you want to hit it youāll have to sacrifice another modifier, such as attack speed on your charm, or power vs. monsters/crit chance on your gun.
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Itās not like it ruined the gun or anything, but i think itās such an unnecessary and stupid thing to nerf. The inability to hit certain breakpoints, making it more annoying to hit previous ones, general reduced damage with headshots (which also affects working together with a team or tagging and then going into melee), just generally disincentivizing headshots is just generally uncalled for imo.
1 Like