Human ranged weapons have something wrong

Hi all guys,

i don’t want speaks about elf or dwarf weapons because is fantasy game and an elvish bow can penetrate all but human ranged weapons are really “strange”.

I can’t understand why a crossbow can penetrate multi-target (like Saltzpyre volley crossbow) and a bunderbuss can’t.
Kruber huntsman and Saltzpyre bounty hunter have mandatorily use non black powder ranged weapons because are underpowered.

I think a simple solution is reverse statistics:
bow/crossbow have better range and better reload time BUT can’t penetrate armour or multi target
black powder ranged weapons (like blunderbuss or brace of pistol) can penetrate armour and multi target but with a slow reload time.

Fireweapons, historically born to penetrate heavy armour so why they can’t? Why are so underpowered?

Thanks all for attention, have fun.

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The small pistols were so weak in duels you could wear 3 to 5 layers of wet silk shirts to stop the bullet.
You had to use the really big weapons for penetrating armor. And the fall-off was ridiculous because of the missing twist.
Long time bows were far superior to fireweapons but the latter ones had a really huge advantage:
Any dumb farmer was able to use this weapon.

Later on as the fireweapons got their twist they penetrated armor easily but afaik Warhammer firearms still don’t have it.

W/i the lore I don’t believe the science/tech surrouning Nuln/dwarf engineering is comparable to that of earth’s firearms development. They have gatling cannons, for example. Despite their rustic appearance, every firearm they use seems rather deadly compared to the irl weapons they resemble.

  • Handgun is less versatile weapon than bow but without more damage;
  • Blunderbuss is useless against armoured enemies and bosses;
  • Rep gun is just a dull weapon, it lacks damage agaist armoured enemies and it lacks penetration against horde;
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Thanks for answering and thanks Avar for the clarification.

This means that i’m right: fireweapons needs to have armour and multi target penetration to be really useful and compehetitive.
Saltzpyre + brace of pistols is pratically useless compared with a saltzpyre + volley crossbow. Damage is laughable. Autopistol is meh but ever inferior to volley crossbow. And this is ridicolous.

Even poor Kruber have an at least .50 cal sniper rifle unable to penetrate armour and flesh of more than ONE skaven slaves… To not mention blunderbuss…

Also if see, as Avar say, lore or tabletop game or other games, like Wh:Tw, every black powder weapon have armour penetration…

SO why here arrows ranged weapons can penetrate armour and/or multi target and more powerful fireweapons don’t?

edit: blunderbuss isn’t useless against bosses, it do damage especially with special talent, but is totally useless against hordes. Can kill 3-4 skaven slaves with a shot no more. Then have to reload, kite and shot again… While Saltzpyre can decimate alone, alone, an horde with volley crossbow… Again is ridicolous

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Wat, blunderbuss definitely penetrates a fair number of targets.

It doesn’t have much issues with SV up close unless they got shields. It is useless for CW though, same as most weapons.

Blunderbuss has decent boss damage but limited ammo capacity means it is usually bad vs bosses. The blunderbuss is a horde clear weapon, I don’t know how you’ve been using it… You can wipe out easily 30-80% of a wave with a single shot if you are in the right position and right distance.

Don’t shotguns only do 50% damage to boss-type enemies? I mean the monsters and pack master.

Lol have you used a volley crossbow to clear an horde? Blunderbuss can do it but with a some problems and never as volley cb can.
With Saltzpyre bh i can kill at distance, without risk, a wave because quarrels penetrate more targets and have a great range. With bb is simply impossible do same thing.

It doesn’t have much issues with SV up close unless they got shields. It is useless for CW though, same as most weapons.

Yes, against CW it’s fine to do no damage… but the lacking range against, for example, SV it’s a very bad thing for a ranged career like Huntsman.

SVs are only a threat up close anyway, so imo it doesn’t matter that much.

Volley xbow has a mass limit of 4.90625, meaning it can penetrate roughly 2 fanatics or 3 slaves. Blunderbuss has a mass limit of 3.14 with the linesman trait which makes it ~4.1867, or 2 fanatics or 3 slaves. The difference though is that the blunderbuss has 12 pellets in a shot that spreads out plus high normal damage per pellet, meaning that if you can position yourself well, you can kill much more than you would think in when shooting into the horde, much more than a volley can. Also reloading the blunderbuss is a lot less obnoxious than reloading the volley while in mid fight. Not to mention the blunderbuss doesn’t have the weapon change bug and swaps back and forth very rapidly.

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The lack of twist affects accuracy more than fall-off, they retained high velocity for a longer time than bows and were far superior in armor penetration.
From a realistic point of view, there’d be the longbow (somewhat inaccurate, can’t be held for long without sacrificing even more accuracy, pretty much the huntsman one, decent AP at close range, less so at long).
A weaker bow, with good accuracy, faster rate of fire, but terrible AP, pretty much the swift.
Crossbow, lower rate of fire, low-medium AP (for crossbows to get better against armor, you required extra tools to wind them), but can be aimed without strain/loss of accuracy.
Firearms, with low accuracy and rate of fire, but high range and massive AP.

Well honestly, it wouldn’t be fun.
In the context of warhammer, handguns are special AP and can be accurate. I can’t remember what pistols did, though.
Anyway, i feel like a few of them really just need some minor buffs to make them viable (and really none need to get better vs hordes imo). For the handgun, boss damage+aim-time/accuracy.
Repeater accuracy+AP.
Blunderbuss/grudge damage vs hookrats, either reclassifying them as something other than bosses or it needs a boss buff damage, but i get why it was reduced so idk.
BoP is a bit more difficult, not sure what to do about it.

Everything is backwards in this game…bladed weapons pierce armour but maces don’t.

It’s been like that since VT1.

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Considering it’s 4 or 5 against an entire army, there’s need for some degrees of freedom from logic.

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Why bother giving us swords, axes and maces then if they behave nothing like the real thing?

Hammers and maces, both 1H and 2H should have armour penetration at all times.

Swords and axes should dismember on swing, swords and knives should be more agile and should penetrate only on thrust attacks (and not that well compared to maces and hammers, apart from the daggers/rapier), etc.

Axe/halberd blades should not penetrate metal armour. Neither should falchions.

Gunpowder weapons apart from buckshot should always penetrate armour.

Swift bow shouldn’t apart from headshot. (as it is in the game, at least they got that right)

I love the game, it just makes no sense.

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Because most weapons are already several times stronger than they would realistically be. It’s universe with “fantasy” in the name.

… is a weapon made for dealing with plate armor.
Fixed for you.

You do realize that making it more “realistic” would possibly make combat a pike and shot simulator?

Longbows historically existed to be anti armor, it was a massive boon to the English’s peasant heavy army when fighting against French Knights, so its ability to kill armor easily makes sense, although I do agree with you that blackpower weapons should be stronger against armored foes. Same with blunt weapons like flail or hammers.

A game like Vermintide, must be balanced, not realistic. It’s not a simulator game.

@souI23 realistic don’t necessary means “simulator”. Realistic means that a blunderbuss CAN’T be weaker than an bow.

And i’m agree with Revy. In fact longobow caused at least 2000 kills during the battle in Azincourt and Crecy, that’s right.

That’s why I said “halberd blades”…OK maybe just with the stab animation.

In fact blunderbuss must be buffed… but mainly to balance problem, imho.

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