Last week we were running a weekly event (Tzeentch stuff + vanguard) on Skittergate. When we went to Norsca, there spawned a sackrat - as he usually does - right inside the gate. So yeah - my reflexes beat my mind, and I just stabbed him in the face with my rapier. Needless to say that the elf who was behind me didn’t make it to the other side past the two ogres 
And the worst thing - he got respawned beside the exit elevator.
Now I owe 4 beers next time I’m in Germany 
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The other night I’m playing HM on legend, skittergate, the match before I topped the scores, I get to the second stormvermin, he hits me, then I miss dodge he hits me again and I’m downed xD
I don’t remember any particular situations where I’d blundered badly (and at least recently there haven’t been any that are as significant as some stories here), but there was one time I was the target. I was grabbed by a gutter Runner and took, of course, some damage from it. At the last moment, leaving me with a single point of health, another player shot me free - and before I could act, I saw a fireball flying through my head. Downed right away, of course. Didn’t really even endanger the run, though, and I was (as usual) playing with friends so no problem (though I did comment about it).
There’s also a personal blunder I’ve repeated several times, and likely will repeat, that is very stupid and can endanger my character’s health. As with any skilled player, dodging is very much a reflexive action to me, and especially with some more mobile weapons I keep dodging constantly, either circling enemies or back and forth, depending on location. Sometimes, though, I end up easily dodging an overhead strike from an Elite enemy, brainfart, and dodge right back - straight into the now finishing attack, that would have missed if I’d kept my dodging direction or waited for a fraction of a second longer.
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Vented myself to death on a deed with sudden death
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Could’ve been abduction!!? 
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The moment you dodge backwards and while the animation plays you think “Why did I do that? That was kinda stupid.” And then the upperhead swing hits you.
And you can’t even blame anyone else than yourself.
"Oh, I should not stand here. Troll in front of me, cliff behind me, I am carrying the griiiiiiiiii aaaaaa hahaha " sploosh.
No one to blame but me. It felt like in a movie where the picture stops with a scratch sound “We all definetely know, what happens next.”
The reason A&F is basically the best weapon in the game is basically what @SmokerT69 mentioned but its also that A&F has armor piercing and high stagger for a “light” weapon.
If you compare the A&F to dual daggers or dual swords from the elf against a mixed horde then it´s overwhelmingly better.
Simply because A&F wrecks armor and staggers pretty much anything short of a chaos warrior on light attacks, daggers fall off against hordes due to their short reach making them extremely bad in smaller spaces&high number of enemies while dual swords suck against all forms of armor and shields and bigger targets.
Well all relatively speaking, pretty much anything can be made to work but its a question of how much work.
Combine this with zealots rising power at lower health, high tankiness and his on demand attackspeed booster and you have a melee character that has no equal, not even slayer bardin is his match.
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Aye, they have higher base damage all around, I think his first light axe attack does around 17 damage 
Not only that, the heavy attacks are very easily spammable and nearly always headshots, with them hitting 2(14 compared to 12 monster damage on DD) more damage than dual daggers. You are getting the best of both worlds. Great horde clear with a 20% bonus crit chance on the push attack which transitions into horde cleaves. Zealots spam this to top up on temp HP. Then you got some of the highest boss damage in the game. Top that off with zealot having a resist death passive, dealing 30% more damage on melee and ranged, you got all the right ingredients for an overpowered character.
You can look at any serious game play, legend deeds, or the recent twinned event. The zealot will dominate the leader board. Not even shades can keep up. Here’s a recent one from the twined event with hyper twitch.
Bosses spawning left and right, and even with the shade pumping 23k damage into bosses, still wasn’t enough. Got an IB with flamethrower deleting hordes, no where close. Meanwhile I’m just memeing through because I built my Zealot to 1 shot every single horde mob and pretty much 2 hit everything else. lol
Back on topic, the most embarrassing thing I did was that game above. 42 mins and 48 seconds I could of been QPing with pubs for the lulz.
Its mostly because zealot passive works for ranged if you talk about monsters
No… lol, the A&F does more base monster damage xD I love how you defend everything to the death when you don’t even bother to look up the data. 
A&F does more base damage, then you throw the zealots 30% damage buff on top of that
If you can’t understand that 1 hit killing nearly everything in the game is broken, I can’t help you mate…
To be fair, Brace of pistol barrage onto a head on say the stormfiend or the troll tends to deal some nutty damage, so i can see where he is coming from.
But just using light attacks is perfectly fine too and is usually better against spawn and ogre.
Oh yea, drink strength potion, bomb boss for shrapnel, unload BoP into him. GG boss… With decanter you can reload the BoP and fire it again before the buff wears off.
But I was simply talking about the A&F, they have higher base monster damage than the Dual Daggers for the Elf. But yea, I touched on the passive 30% damage carrying over to ranged which is something that adds to him being OP.
If comparing just melee against a boss unhindered wouldnt shade backstabbing+daggers and their bleed ensure a decent competition with the zealot and his high power?
Not sure how 50% bonus damage compares to 30% more power though.
You mostly defend that elf weapons are normal, when something is better instantly its need nerf. Yeah both of them need nerf, like what the hell why machette have AA in this combo I dont get it. Zealot shouldnt get ranged bonus damage from his passive ( I would gladly swap that unchained have ranged damage bonus (not 30% max but 10%) instead of zealot,its sounds better.
Saltz on crit stun everything outside of monsters.
And yeah zealot is broken as elf 
oh yea, any competent shade should be able to delete bosses far faster than a Zealot. There’s some super cheese builds for the shade as well. Like using barrage, shrapnel and dual daggers to nearly 1 shot a boss. You can stack that with WHC tag bonus as well. Absolutely mental… I personally think the shades damage should be brought down as well. She can dispatch 2 bosses at the same time, even if that’s her thing, I think it’s a bit too much. But, Zealot does everything else better currently.
I’m not defending elf weapons? I haven’t done that once, have I? Most people say Elf weapons are the most overpowered, and the A&F is currently better than them. That’s all I’ve been pointing out. I’m a WS/HM main, with hundreds of hours just on them. Yet I can jump on zealot and out preform them any day of the week. I personally don’t play shade just because of how Cheesy it feels. I only recently just did the 100 clears on shade after I forced myself to finish her. Me saying the Zealot is broken in no way stops changes from happening on other classes…
He didnt say that the A&F should be nerfed though?
He called them OP but nothing about nerfs.
But which elf is broken? Only one that does anything exceptional is shade against bosses but the only reason she is better than kruber at it is because she is melee-…
Waystalker? Your average squishy ranged really, regen is great but it wont really save you if you start taking damage for real, or even just one bad hit…the only thing i can think off that she is does the best is sniping specials with her F but thats it.
Sienna can easily match any anti horde while kruber and saltz ranged careers are both better against elites and specials that arent dodging around…hells kruber longbow oneshots stormvermin on a bodyshot while waystalker needs 3.
Bounty Saltz and his crossbow are probably the strongest though, that passive lets him kill chaos warriors in 2-3 hits or something. .,…ah come to think off it what waystalker does is being a jack of the trades.
Handmaiden? Just the average melee but with a focus on dodging around rather than brute forcing like some of the others do, she really does nothing exceptionally well at all…except dodging.
So when you call elf OP,…what are you referring to? Because i cant figure it out despite having played all the others to various degrees.
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All of her weapons perform better than any other counterparts. Waystalker have pretty much special killer ult that have very good 25 lvl talents and with little skill it can kill chaos warrior. Handmaiden, aveage melee, yeah well no, power boost amazing dodge, skill that make you impossible to corner and free hits because of invisibility, very good monster killer with spear etc
Shade, outside of ult that is isnt only monster killer, its have half the cost of push for 2 weapons (thats a lot of pushes) one of best ranged weapons and talent for amazingly ease ammo return.
Waystalker F does not kill chaos warriors on legend without a crit, heck it only kills 1 stormvermin´s worth of enemies without a crit which makes it very unreliable and inconsistent.
Unlike Sienna´s fireball from what i can tell, or Bounty saltz…although its hard to tell since one can easily activate his passive first before using the F.
Huntsman Kruber meanwhile kills any stormvermin in 1 hit from his longbow while waystalker needs 3, he also breaks non SV shields and he has a massive headshot multiplier that lets him wreck CW´s from range.
Waystalker is versatile, she does a lot but isnt particularly good at anything.
Then,…All her weapons?
Her axe is the same as the rest.
Her 1hand sword seems about the same as krubers from what i can tell, both are pretty lackluster, in the 1hand category it seems to me like Sienna´s expansion weapon is the best although i havent tried it properly.
Daggers? No one has any equivalent from what i can tell.
2hand sword? To me this thing is pretty much garbage, the awkward swings cause so many issue´s and the heavy attack isnt enough to make up for it.
Glaive? The heavy attack combo is indeed powerful but its also extremely slow, just like the rest of the weapon really, i´d argue that overall Kruber´s executioner sword is easily on par.
Seen some Slayers make the 2hand axe and mace look really good too.
Spear? Its super safe but for good players looking to be aggressive krubers halbeard seems better…same reach, nearly as fast, more cleave, same capability against armor.
If you know how to manage large waves of enemies and dodge big attacks then halberd does better, my only complaint is that it feels a bit clunky at times but most of krubers weapons do.
Dual swords? Inferior to dual axes, dual hammers, A&F.
SnD? Same as the dual sword albeit not as much.
And again, yes, handmaiden is average, all the melee classes have some form of damage booster skill or multiplier.
Her dodging is fancy but…how much do you actually need to dodge? And if you use the stealth on her F you are basically giving your allies a lot of problems by shifting aggro to them constantly which is a jerk move.
Slayer, Zealot, Witchhunter, kruber and unchained dont have this problem, right setup and they can cleave right through a horde.
Very good monster killer? Every weapon not specialized in anti horde is basically good for it, and other careers do better damage than Handmaiden does.
And from where do get that info on the shade? There is nothing on the gamepedia about it…she has talents for dodging and stamina regen but nothing on pushing.
And i havent noticed anything while playing her either.
One of the best ranged weapons? Yes, for a melee class…just like saltz has the brace of pistols, Ironbreaker has the flamethrowers and kruber has that massive shotgun.
All these are amazing for their jobs.
Waystalker can kill chaos warrior with ult, you need to angle it correctly and have 50% talent
Axe same as rest? Unlimited dodge count ?
1hd sword, ehh can’t tell 1hd was always bad no matter what.
2hd Sword dont have slow on attack, have better dodge and have single heavy target with very small slowing effect and unlimited time for attack
Glaive i would say its equivalent of exec sword, its easier to make heavies because dont have slowmo on attacks.
Spear is better in every term than halberd, faster easier to deal with armored, have 180 block range dont need to use push for armored,very good against bosses.
Dual sword is mostly for hordes and have 40% crit on 3rd attack or something like that, its better than that for hordes than hammers or a&f
SnD better than hammers, faster heavies 10% crit on every attack and bleed. I would say only slightly weaker than A&F because of not having that much damage and armor penetr on every attack
No most of melee classes dont have 15% damage for nothing, you need to activate it somehow way easier to make breakpoints.
Shade have half push cost for SnD and for dual daggers, gamepedia is lacking a lot like saltz stun everything outside of monster on crits.
Yeah and both of weapons you said its shitty for sniping specials, nice you just pointed out typical horde cleaning weapons to special/monster killer weapon. Bop is yeah similar to xbow, but have way slower reload and similar rof
@Perteks
What you mean is dual daggers, rapier and Sienna’s dagger (+maybe S&D, don’t know) only consuming 1/2 
/ push, it’s not career specific.
@Frostysir
Dual Swords comparison with slayers unique weapon and a slightly op dlc weapon is not a good point of reference in my opinion.