Havoc, in my opinion, is in a better state now than it was before Nightmares and Visions. However, a lot of the same gripes and problems still underlie that did before.
First of all, it’s been said again and again for good reason, the derank after 3 losses mechanic. There is zero reason for this to exist other than to kill the game mode. It disincentivises people to actually play havoc unless they have a premade team of players they know are good. Just get rid of it, people would be so much more willing to interact with the mode if they don’t have to worry about losing their rank simply for wanting to play. You can still keep the optional derank as a way for people to reroll their map if they really want to, or can’t beat their current combination of modifiers. If you’re worried about players not “earning” their havoc 40 rank, then that’s what campaigns are for. Let people try missions again and again and experiment with different strategies and team compositions. That’s the majority of the fun of very difficult things, and is a large portion of the skill in this game in knowing how to prepare yourself or your team to combat whatever map and modifiers you have.
Secondly, add a quickplay as an optional way to queue into the mode. Now that players that don’t have a premade team are less scared to interact with havoc in the first place, add quickplay. Simply let someone pick a range of havocs to queue into, such as being able to pick to queue into a havoc 20-29, or 30-40. The party finder system is cumbersome and annoying, even if the loss rates are high through quick play, having it as an option for players that just want to queue into a random low or high rank havoc would make it a lot more likely for players to interact with havoc in the first place. Quick play should not be the primary way to interact with havoc as being able to more finely tune your team with party finder will always be better, but having quickplay as an option for people who just want to try havocs is a good thing.
Lastly, let players choose any havoc assignment below their own. If I’ve climbed to 40,I should be able to choose to play a havoc 25. The difficulty of havoc 25 is really nice for my skill level in a non premade team, as it’s still incredibly challenging but isn’t so insane as havoc 40. I shouldn’t have to completely forfeit my havoc 40 and be forced to win another 9 missions to get back to 40. I’ve already proved that I can reach havoc 40, just because I want to not sweat my arse off doesn’t mean I want to completely forfeit my havoc 40. Just let me play a lower rank if I want to. It’d again make people so much more willing to just jump into a havoc match as they can play lower ranks for fun if they want to, but still be able to attempt the really difficult havoc ranks when desired.
If anyone has any other major recommendations then please leave them below. These are the three major things that are keeping both me and my friends from touching the mode now that we’ve hit havoc 40. As now that we can say we completed a havoc 40, we have absolutely zero reason to keep playing the mode or helping others as we can only be hurt by trying. Hopefully fatshark uses this to make havoc better, as it’s got potential to be a good game mode but currently is missing at least these three key things.
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It actually is really nice now, doesn’t matter if you play lvl 20, 30, or 40. It is a nice higher difficulty than aurics. Try not to be so hung up on remaining lvl 40
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And you do not forfeit any levels if you join a lower level? With the current system there are more missions posted then before, should not be hard to find one in the difficulty you aspire
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You do if you want to post your own assignment. I should have the option to post my own assignment at a lower rank should I want to. What if I want to play with my group of friends that are all at or near 40 but we don’t want to sweat on a 40? Do I just tell one of my friends to leave and find his own match so we can find a random with a 25? I get this doesn’t apply to the majority, but simply having the option doesn’t seem like a big ask
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The issue is there is penance incentive to be high havoc as there is a penance where you have to claim 20 or so havoc 35-40 crates. If there was zero in game incentive to being high havoc then I would agree with you
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Having it as an option isn’t a bad idea, if you don’t want to use quickplay then don’t, but giving people an option that lets more people interact with the mode is never a bad thing. If you are using party finder and making your own team before hand then you won’t be dealing with random people quick playing into your game either.
Yeah completionist stuff should not be in the sweaty mode, the other stuff seams to be only a quality of life stuff as you can do what you want but have to sacrifice ranks/time. And I say go for it!
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If not quickplay, then we at least need some automated party finder options. As in, something that sends out invites to every match within parameters on your behalf, and another that auto-accepts requests when you’re hosting a party.
I HATE having to constantly reopen the PF tab just to click a check mark or refresh the finder.
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how to fix havoc: stop doing anything with havoc and balance the base game instead. i’m tired of the devs wasting time for a gamemode aimed at literally 50 players total or so. I am not interested in the experience havoc offers even if I do think damnation is too easy, it’s a totally different game on havoc and one i dont enjoy.
its a gamemode that is designed to be so hard to not be fun with randoms. thats fine but stop wasting dev time on that a majority of players play with randoms. throw the tryhard premades a bone to chew sure but stop making it your balancing focus already, please. it’s been months. move on
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Totally agree on these ideas and I’ve been occasionally bringing them up in conversations. They could just copy what Monster Hunter Risebreak does and it’d be a massive improvement.
Remove the deranking system, let people choose what rank they want to play, allow players to matchmake Havocs within a selected range of something like 21-25 or 1-40 and finally allow players to actually join mid-game but without giving in-game rewards to late-joiners, say 10 mins after mission start (like in Monster Hunter)
Example screenshots
Choosing your range for matchmaking
Choosing what rank you want to play at
No rewards for late-joiners
But unfortunately, it seems like someone with decision making power at Fatshark really HATES allowing players to choose things for themselves. So we got this crappy havoc system 2 years after launch despite everyone complaining about the lack of agency in the mourningstar’s systems/menus.
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I do mostly agree. Havoc is supposed to be for the most dedicated players, but the way it’s implemented right now makes it so it’s EXCLUSIVELY for those dedicated players. Removing the punishment for losing and letting players more freely pick what tier of havoc to play should open it up to be more available to people that just want a different experience than auric by playing lower havocs, while still offering the intensity of high havocs.
I’d personally rather they spent the dev time improving what they have or fleshing mortis trials out more than developing havoc in the first place. But, if they are going to spend the time making the mode then I would like them to at least leave it in a state that’s enjoyable. The few changes I’ve proposed today really shouldn’t take horribly long to implement should they choose to. The issue is most of what I’ve proposed has been said multiple times since havoc release several months ago, and yet nothing has been done on those fronts. It just feels like fatshark wants to spend time developing new things, but doesn’t want to take community feedback as to how to make those new things actually good.
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I don’t see QP working: the difficulty increases too fast to have a range of more than 2 lvls.
Plus the current mutators are so annoying any given player could dislike any one of them for different reasons, it’s a good idea to let players see what they are getting into.
The matchmaking seems to work for the lower tier of difficulties at least.
About deranking - I can see it sort of working, but only if they remove rewards for clearing the higher levels. I’m so glad I got both on the first season.
The stupidest thing RN is that if you try a lower level for fun you won’t get progression, but you still get demoted on losing it. And as you won’t just became of the level you’ve just beaten anymore (which is good if it’s a lower one) climbing back up is just going to be a pain.
If a mighty havoc lvl 40 warrior helps in an easy lvl 20 and wipes maybe he deserves his lost try…
Anti-fun rhetoric detected. Let people play as they want. Deranking system disincentivizes experimentation and gameplay variety.
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Counterpoint, a person who has cleared havoc 40 with a team of players equal to their skill level will still likely not be able to carry a havoc 20 if their havoc 20 teammates aren’t ready for that difficulty. One person can only do so much, so even if that one person is well equipped for the difficulty and will increase the odds that the mission succeeds, if the rest of the team is not equipped for it then that will outweigh what that one havoc 40 player can provide, and will have the mission in a failure anyways
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No trying to rigidly stay at 40 disincentives experimentation. I constantly try new stuff and only play off meta weapons at around havoc 30 pugs. Deranc mechanic just places you at your level ( where you in average succeed in one of four games). Accept it and have fun.
Cannot agree with your counterpoint, does not match with my experiences. Level 20 havoc’s are clutchable.
