Yeah, this was fair and balanced and if you couldn’t deal with this kind of situation where 2 patrol just spawn on top of you with 6 special spawn at the same time you just have to get gud ahah lmao follow me on my ebin twitch chan where I do legend run solo while blinded and a hand in my back.
Legend was 50% skill, 50% luck, ofc you had some easy run but when RNG Jesus wanted to have non consensual love with you he did and did it hard. I hope the patch fixed this issue cause I’m tired of this bull’s fecal matter.
There’s still deeds if you want higher challenge.
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IIRC most weapons were viable in VT1 cata. There were many ways to make VT1 cata harder, without significantly upping the proportions of armored vs unarmored enemies.
I never argued for “making every weapon viable in every situation” (I never said two handed sword should be able to deal with SV, just that there should not be too many SV for two handed sword to deal with). Ie. I merely suggested that making some weapons obsolete was probably not the best idea.
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So… we are not going to talk about the other stuff, they did right?
Thank you for disabling leech TP damage.
Thank you for fixing Skittergarte.
Thank you for the Halscourge balancing.
Special spawning is easily fixable and I dont doubt they will increase it again, but the most important part is that they fix the broken parts of the game right now.
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EVERY weapon should be viable in every difficulty. It’s mindboggling someone could think that should not be the case, or that it’s impossible to do.
They don’t need to be all equally effective, but saying that it isn’t a problem when half the available arsenal is akin to purposefully gimping yourself is downright irritating.
In this recent patch, Fatshark stratified the special spawn chance some, and reduced the amount of armoured roaming enemies.
If that makes the map significantly easier, then that probably means that non-armoured enemies, in a somewhat equal quantity, are too weak. That doesn’t mean it’d be a good idea to revert the change - it might just as well indicate a need to buff non-armoured enemies.
To say nothing of hordes that nearly every weapon can cut through as if the enemies were made of paper and warm butter.
I believe there’s plenty of options to balance this game beyond planting stormvermin everywhere.
Or at least, I sincerely hope so.
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I love the work they are putting into the game, and I actively try to not come across as rude or condecending torwards the devs. I’m sure everyone else here is very thankful for those fixes as well. Its just that this thread is specifically for discussing the difficulty in the current version of the game, specifically on legend.
Hold up so it’s ok to nerf everything into the dust because you can’t do it is ok then ?
I simply don’t believe you, I think you are over blowing the issue just for the sake of the argument. I run through dozens upon dozens maps everyday. Yes there are some glitchy bug and silent patrols spawn but overall you can go through a level just by paying attention to sounds. Bugs are bugs none of us can help it, I’m a victim just like you to these instant chaos patrols or SV patrols spawns.
Invisible walls are also the problem , it happens on a lot of maps. It’s not a special spawn problem but map issues. Ask FS to finish the maps not nerf the spawn into the dust.
Forgot to add : I’ve burn for most of my deeds. And there is no other way to loot them but via chests… Deeds are not something you can just queue into.
Also i find the reasoning of “If i can’t do it, nerf it to my level and to hell with everyone else”
I just run a legend couple hours ago with bots… 1 grim 3 tomes. Took me 20 minutes because bots would get stuck.
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Spare me the low grade limp wrist slaps and stay on point. If don’t believe me just watch the VOD, hundreds of hours of them.
Instant Patrol Spawn it’s a BUG not a FEATURE. There are many maps where spawn are simply bugged or broken, i always trying to point it out to the devs or on forums when i have time. Do i think spawn ratios should be tweaked ? Ofc they should be but the core difficulty shouldn’t be changed. As of right now Legend Maps are deserted wasteland.
Also deeds, are not unlimited, looted via chests and often have same maps.
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If some of the deeds were a difficulty in their own right, not just one-time-use only, that might serve as a solution to the difficulty problem.
The most fun I’ve had in the game so far has been a deed that increased horde spawn-rates and made them a tier higher infantry. So slaverats were clanrats. On Fort Brachsenbrucke the finale was a never-ending tide of clanrats that we as 4 people had to coordinate to fend off and complete the event. A group of people that are used to waltzing through Legend full book at that.
It felt most akin to a difficulty in V1’s QoL mod called Onslaught, which gave all spawns a much higher frequency. That deed is what gave me hope for the future of V2’s difficulty. If there was a permanent difficulty setting that applied those unending bombardments of enemies, THAT in my eyes could be the difficulty the more experienced players are itching to play.
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Which is redundant and makes too many of the weapons in the game worthless for Legend. Having entire levels full of Stormvermin was not a good thing. It made it hard in the sense that a number of weapons were made quite ineffective if levels made all ambiance units Stormvermin.
You’re reacting this way after a single patch and so are other people. If you’ve played as many hours as you’ve said, then you should know that Fatshark will tweak difficulty as needed to get it to the right spot. This patch(and stretch of time) might be easier, but that isn’t to say they won’t make changes in the future.
Precisely.
I’d hardly call a map filled with armored units balanced. It really does make weapons like dual-swords and such obsolete on that difficulty.
Too many weapons were made useless in every situation legend. That was the problem. And if you talk about hordes, then it wasn’t uncommon for them to get gunked up with armored units and hinder the cleaving perks of weapons like 2h swords. Again, making weapons that were good against armor more useful.
Exactly.
Precisely. The game will reach a sweet spot in time.
No one is saying that at all. You’re completely ignoring what they’re saying(things they’ve stated numerous times, at that). Just give the game time.
You can clearly see here the devs care and are trying. The patch has barely been out and you’re already demanding change from them. They have more important, game-breaking, issues to deal with.They’re trying to iron out the game and then they can better deal with balance. How can you properly balance the game when some of the things making it so much harder at times are the bugs that occur? It’s only logical to try and fix them as fast and efficiently as possible first. One of the reasons runs are probably “easier” is because they’re fixing game-breaking issues as well. Such as leeches punching you to death, lol.
I’d give it a lot longer than 24 hours before making any real judgements on difficulty/legend. I’ll probably play it for several days or a week before formulating an idea of where the direction should probably go.
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I think you are right to say it is very, very unfortunate if legend becomes too easy, but I think this post includes a lot of nonsense. I don’t see him being even slightly condescending, and he even says the difficulty will be adjusted upwards if it is too easy now. I don’t see how this shows they are out of touch in any way, except lackluster legend testing, which they have admitted to before and is true for almost every game studio I can think of (Riot almost excepted, and they have incredible amounts of money). They can interpret results when it is released to players though, and the results are pretty clear.
Also, unless you think he is lying:
not aimed, intended or engineered to nerf legend
Your reaction is understandable from an emotional point of view but parts of your post are honestly silly. I’d focus more on the details of the difficulty issue.
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Christ, dude, I’m not. My team is composed of V1 veterans, found champion easy, and are between 550-600 power and we couldn’t clear a non-brackenbruke mission on Legend because of the ridiculous special spawning conditions.
Look, clearly you’re some kind of vermintide savant if you regularly clear legend maps with 3 bots and a grimoire, but then you have to realize that anything you find even partially challenging will be impossible for 99.9% of the playerbase, and barely doable for the next .09%. Be elitist if you want, tell me I need to ‘get good’ or whatever, but I sincerely hope fatshark doesn’t balance the game to your needs because, if steam is to be trusted and less than 1.5% of the playerbase has even cleared the game on champion, I can’t imagine how small of a representation of the playerbase you are. Maybe you can get what you want from the modding tools or playing with a blindfold or something.
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The thing is that for a lot of people pre 1.04 champion difficulty 3/2 runs with complete strangers in a lobby with no voice chat was pretty damn easy. I had something like a 80-90% success rate. Pre 1.04 legend was challenging with strangers, even with voice chat. It’s meant to be CHALLENGING. If you don’t approve of how difficult legend was then go back to champion.
There is literally nothing left for me to do in this game now except farm reds and play legend maps. If legend gets to the point where it’s as easy as champion was in 1.03 the game is dead for me and a lot of other people.
If you couldn’t handle legend in 1.03 then yes GET GOOD or go back to champion. It’s called legend for a reason. Alternatively fatshark can keep this weak legend difficulty and give us vermintide 1 vets another difficulty on top of it.
I’m sorry some people are bad at the game but still want to play the highest difficulty. But that shouldn’t punish those of us who are hardcore players and NEED that challenge to have fun. Running through a map easy mode thrashing everything gets boring real fast.
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Lol man. I haven’t formulated an opinion either way as the patch has barely even been out, but re-read what you wrote, and realize how whiny it sounds. They said they will look at it, and adjust as needed, and that it even could be bugged. You sound like a 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum right now. I thought this community was supposed to be civilized. Your post has more salt in it than anything I see in a typical League of Legends game.
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oh absolutely, people never get thanks for the good things they do. it’s good to see them fix things like this and hell, having patch notes is also awesome. there’s no doubt they’re active on the forums and keeping an eye on things so big props to fatshark. i’m curious to see halescourge since honestly, with a proper strategy he was much easier than people made it seem. i do understand why he was a challenge for most though as it takes a lot more communication than most.
that said, lowering legend is a bad move. champion was already a clown around style difficulty, where myself and a friend would bring level 8 alt characters and go through it with randoms with 0 difficulties. the constant tuning down of difficulties even made it so that, in some cases, we were carrying level 20-30’s simply because previous difficulties hold your hand so much that players aren’t taught mechanics and teamplay anymore.
even though i did not like special spam in legend, it was at least a challenge in its own way. lowering it down and increasing horde spawn rates does absolutely nothing, as most characters can completely solo a horde and not care. kerillian and sienna can mow them down from a distance, anybody with a 2h hammer and swift slaying flails around like a loony and holds the line, etc. the insane specials were all that it had going for it because of how ridiculously overpowered characters are in comparison to enemies.
losing because the AI director had a spaz out moment and threw a ridiculous combo could be frustrating, if not amusing trying to work your way out of, but that was what you dealt with if you wanted to play the top end of the game. neutering it is just going to kill interest of the long time players. i’ll probably still go through it to try and collect some reds, which i’m sure will get an inflated drop rate soon enough due to forum crying, but without the challenge or craziness it’s not going to hold our attention.
to be fair, twitch integration seems to tone down spawns immensely to counter all the horrible things twitch chat will throw at you. turned it on a few times and the maps were damn near empty even before this update. when people were still loot hungry we considered turning it on just to get free boxes. i dunno if it’s really the best way to play.
The only map you could do is the fishbridge or the bracken is the only one you couldn’t do ?
Calling me elitist or whatever is just way to avoid criticism . Also it’s not about anyone needs but for the better of the game.
Reasoning such as : "Dumb it down to my level is only gonna hurt a game where the difficulty is one of its cores. I think it’s gonna hurt the game in the long run.
Also the overwhelming majority of people don’t want to learn anything and think reds are gonna solve their lack of experience. Some chose to learn the mechanics and eventually get better. In 3 weeks since the Beta people who never played V1 made incredible progress and stand on their own now in legend and above.
But there are those with that (as mentioned above) " I’m not bad, the game is too hard so put it to my level mentality". There are bugs, i have 2 pages of them written down and so are many others. There are so many, you really can’t imagine. I discover every day new and “old” ones, either from playing or been told by my fellow slayers.
And FYI “V1 Veteran” You do realize the reason why VT1 was so success is do to output of the small vocal community right ? Forums posters, dedicated players that found bugs, proposed new features, pushed for mods and yes Streamers too !
Modding tools are miles away and deeds are limited and hard to come by.
Line of thinking “Sacrifice the few to the whim of many” is only great when you are the receiving end.
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The problem here is that the difficulty was already there, we’ve been playing it and mastering it. There’s hours of footage from my vods of us playing old legend with full books, heroic deeds and winning and now they’re suddenly changing it to make it easier. The same applies to fuplaayz, watch his vods since release too and he’s doing it with pubs.
We’ve both played thousands of hours of vermintide and play with other players with thousands of hours in the game so for us it’s easy to spot big changes to the game immediately and can see how much a problem it can be down the line.
It’s really jarring because he didn’t seem to take it seriously as we see it because for us the change happened whilst we were playing. We were running old legend one minute, dled the patch and then thought we had gone down to veteran, it felt that bad. We walked through skittergate and then nest and it felt liek a joke. If it’s a bug I’ll take it all back but if it is intentional then they’ve really messed up.
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You obviously never been passionate about anything in your life have you ? Don’t answer it’s a rhetorical question.
All the stormvermin was pretty damn tedious. The numbers might have been lowered a little too much but I’m glad they’re actively looking at it and balancing it. Also, you wouldn’t dream of bringing a weapon into legend that had no armor piercing but at least now it’s more viable than it was before.
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Twitch integration depends on the timers and the numbers of people voting. When you have a couple of hundred people voting on your game then it’s a night and day difference from a normal run.
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Yeah I totally get that, and noticed the same thing in my runs. Since this is the top difficulty available I think it would be an absolute shame if it got too easy. There is some good information in this thread, so hopefully they will tweak it the correct way.
I agree they messed up if this is not bugged. I will be upset if they do not attempt to reach similar difficulty to before, though while avoiding things like leech tp dmg, patrol no minimum proximity spawn, etc, eg low counterplay difficulty.