How about breaking out of grappling yourself?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
1

EDIT
Okay, so I put a bit more thought into the idea, and here’s how I think it could be implemented where it wouldn’t feel out of place in the game.

When grappled, you can choose whether or not to struggle against your assailant.
Should you choose to struggle, you are then tasked with an input challenge having to press certain keys on the keyboard (or buttons on a gamepad) within a designated amount of time. The number of keys/buttons to be pressed and the designated amount of time you have to do it would vary on the difficulty the player is playing on. The punishment for failing the attempt would vary based on difficulty as well.

Differences in the mechanic based on difficulty:
Recruit: Fewest number of key/button inputs within a period 7 seconds (give or take). Failing the attempt will instantly down your character.
Veteran: A decent number of key/button inputs within a period of 5 seconds (give or take). Failing the attempt will instantly down your character with half of the red health bar missing.
Heroic: A large number of key/button inputs within a period of 3 seconds (or less). Failing the attempt will instantly kill your character.
Legendary: The mechanic would not be available for this difficulty.

Note: While attempting to struggle, your character would continue to take the damage they normally would if they weren’t struggling. If they enter the downed state (go into red health) while struggling, it will count as a failed attempt, and the corresponding punishment would be implemented. CHARACTER WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEMPT TO STRUGGLE WHILE IN THE DOWNED (RED HEALTH) STATE

End of Edit

Begginning of original post
I’d like to just really quickly say off that bat that I LOVE this game, and its predecessor. It is well made, and does so much right, from the overall mechanics to the voice acting to the feel of combat to the… I could go on for a long time with this, so before I brought up my idea, I just wanted to establish that I love the game.

So, with that being said, I’d like to suggest something I believe the game could benefit from. And that is THE ABILITY TO BREAK OUT OF SPECIAL ENEMIES’ GRAPPLING MOVES ON YOUR OWN.

This could be done with a sequence of button input that you have to do after being grabbed, or something that would require some sort of skill. As it is, I just don’t feel like much of a mighty hero when a lone enemy combatant can completely take me out and I can do NOTHING to get away on my own…

I understand the idea of being helpless until a teammate saves you; it promotes teamwork and vigilance, and I’m totally on board with that, but this mechanic would still compliment the idea I’m proposing, because, as is seen in the game already, relying on teamwork can break you out of these grappling situations almost instantly if you’re teammates are paying attention and are nearby.

However, if you are by chance, the last man/woman standing, or happen to get knocked away from your companions by a boss enemy or for some other reason, and then get nabbed by one of the many special enemies, I don’t think its too much to ask for a method of escaping them on your own.

The method to break out of these grapples should NOT be instantaneous. It ought to require some sort of precision and skill on the player’s part, and that will separate it from the escape via teamwork method. This way, you’ll still take damage, and may not even be able to save yourself in time anyway, but you won’t be completely helpless when you are caught out on your own. Also, perhaps if you make a mistake in the input while trying to break free, you take an extra burst of damage and must start a new sequence of input from scratch.

I really hope people will consider this. Its always been a bit frustrating when I’ve been playing extremely well and have most of my health even during an extended fight, but because my teammates are all down or have gotten separated from me, I end up getting attacked by an enemy that I cannot defend against and must watch helplessly as I’m brought down because no one is around to save me. It robs from the experience imho.

Just so it is clear of what enemies in particular I am speaking of, I will list them below.

  1. Gutter runners (sneak rats)
  2. Packmasters (hook rats)
  3. Leeches
  4. Chaos Spawn (boss) **This one I’m not as opposed to being unable to escape from because (a) its a boss, and (b) the attack is telegraphed enough to be avoidable. Still, if the mechanic I’m suggesting is implemented, maybe make the task you must perform to escape its grasp on your own particularly challenging because it is a boss.
1 Like
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A reasonable idea, I’m opposed to it mostly because the disablers

all have attacks that are telegraphed / avoidable as well. More difficult for sure, but you can counter them all solo by:

  • Gutter runner: stagger with any attack, leap is easy to dodge by side-stepping, you can also push them out of it if your ping and timing are awesome.
  • Packmasters: Side dodge when they try to hook you, I have the most success by dodging diagonally back usually. There’s some attacks that can stagger them too but not very many. Best bet is to try to shoot them down before they get to you, if not dodge, then you have 5 seconds or so before they circle around to try again.
  • Leeches: Probably the easiest to dodge with a side step, also any attack will stagger them out of their casting animation. When you hear them teleport in you have about a second or two to locate them, otherwise just dodge in a random direction and most of the time you will make it.

I think adding another way to escape while disabled solo would make them a lot less scary and make epic solo clutch saves a lot less epic. The way it is now if I’m alone and i hear a gutter runner spawn, it’s terrifying and all senses are on high alert.

2 Likes
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I think it would detract from the game, you are already able to avoid these enemies and it encourages people to run off on their own more than they already do.

" I just don’t feel like much of a mighty hero when a lone enemy combatant can completely take me out and I can do NOTHING to get away on my own…" You aren’t supposed to feel unstoppable though, this is a co-op game that has enemies intentionally specialized in solo takedowns, you are supposed to feel like you need your friends.

6 Likes
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Good points all around, especially the gutter runners being terrifying when you’re solo. Has led to a great deal “oh s*** oh s*** oh s***” moments in my time playing both games.
I am inclined to agree that the game would probably lose some of its atmosphere with the mechanic I am proposing. Maybe with some balancing, like upping how much damage the specials do both initially and then overtime would help keep that “oh s***” feeling.
Honestly, I think this idea was also born out of the frustration of playing a tanky build that ends up outliving the other characters but then gets overwhelmed when I’m solo.

1 Like
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I agree that it is, and should remain, a game fully focused around cooperative play and you shouldn’t feel like an unstoppable force all by yourself. And I always thought that if someone goes off on their own, the game should spawn more specials to hunt them specifically anyway. Would fit with the Skaven assassin mindset in particular considering they are opportunistic hunters.
That being said, I still feel like implementing this mechanic with risks and rewards doesn’t necessarily take away from the feeling of being a part of the team. You could stick it out and wait to be rescued by your teammates and take only the damage the special would normally do to you, or try to save yourself at the risk of taking even MORE damage if you make a mistake.

2 Likes
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Okay, so I put a bit more thought into the idea, and here’s how I think it could be implemented where it wouldn’t feel out of place in the game.

When grappled, you can choose whether or not to struggle against your assailant.
Should you choose to struggle, you are then tasked with an input challenge having to press certain keys on the keyboard (or buttons on a gamepad) within a designated amount of time. The number of keys/buttons to be pressed and the designated amount of time you have to do it would vary on the difficulty the player is playing on. The punishment for failing the attempt would vary based on difficulty as well.

Differences in the mechanic based on difficulty:
Recruit: Fewest number of key/button inputs within a period 7 seconds (give or take). Failing the attempt will instantly down your character.
Veteran: A decent number of key/button inputs within a period of 5 seconds (give or take). Failing the attempt will instantly down your character with half of the red health bar missing.
Heroic: A large number of key/button inputs within a period of 3 seconds (or less). Failing the attempt will instantly kill your character.
Legendary: The mechanic would not be implemented for this difficulty.

Note: While attempting to struggle, your character would continue to take the damage they normally would if they weren’t struggling. If they enter the downed state (go into red health) while struggling, it will count as a failed attempt, and the corresponding punishment would be implemented.

1 Like
7

I don’t think you should be able to get out of it, with any mechanics besides a team mate assist.

The only exception I think could be would okay would be any new careers/characters having an ability that specifically allows that on their ult. Not saying it’d be great, but that would be the only time I would think it would be acceptable. It would still be limited, it would waste your ult (which I can imagine would have some effects besides the escape if used in other circumstances), and it’s only on one character who would be giving up the mobility options of careers like Zealot and Handmaiden for those who want to speedrun/solo.

The whole point of disablers is to force team work. It doesn’t work in a game to even just ENCOURAGE teamwork massively - look at Battlefield games. There are extremely effective weapon combinations that only work with multiple people, you get points for aiding team mates, you get ammo/health/et cetera for being near team mates and their kit abilities, you get points for following squad leader orders . . . and yet most players STILL run off on their own.

Hell, even in this game that goes out of its way to PUNISH you for going solo, people do it.

P.S. - All that said, it is hilarious in the very rare times you do manage to save yourself from a disabler. I remember having that happen in VT1, where I threw a bomb at a group of enemies just as an assassin pounced, and the blast knocked it off me. Extremely rare for that to happen, though!

2 Likes
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That also could be implemented into, say, Unchained’s Career Skill, likely as a lv25 Talent.

In general, as most here, I don’t think allowing one to break free from disablers would be a good idea. I have thought about it before, and I hated the mechanic when I started VT1, but you get used to it. It is still frustrating when you do get caught, but that’s part of the game.

Considering OP’s suggestion, I don’t think button-pressing minigames have a place in this kind of game. It would be too different from the usual style, and distract from the normal gameplay. Besides, this is already a game of reactions, and as @Flinlock said, all disablers can be avoided. It’s not easy, especially when you have other things to do at the same time, but it’s doable and learnable.

2 Likes
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I really don’t want to see quick time events in this game. “Mash this key to live”. No thanks. Just maybe don’t get grabbed in the first place.

3 Likes
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I wouldn’t suggest any button mashing. Was more in line for randomly generated key input sequences, but nobody seems to like the idea anyway. And the argument of “don’t get nabbed in the first place,” well that’s all well and good, but there are times where it is just GOING to happen, and it is more likely going to happen when you’re the last man standing or get knocked away from your team. I digress, few seem to like the idea of saving yourself, which makes sense, and I figured I would be in the minority in this.

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Indeed it’s close to unavoidable at times, that’s where teammates come in.
Being the last man standing and prone to a wipe because of disablers should be extremely though as is.