Cheesed A.S.S. by abusing disconnects and cheesed Havoc with gold toughness/bubbles. A true sigma of Darktide, the epitome of skill and hardcore. You’re the exact target audence FS intended for Havoc lmao
I’d say you’re both wrong and correct. Havoc is a powercreep mode, as previously stated.
It favors some loadouts and classes over others, and if you play the right ones (it’s plain which ones, so you don’t need guides or anything to figure it out), you can make a lot of mistakes.
The only time you can’t afford to make mistakes is when going for “The Insane” for the “True Survivor” Penance.
I also noted that you felt you were being stomped by Havoc, and I want to underline that I do not mean this as an offense, but I believe this is more of an issue of individual skill level.
Again, I don’t want to appear offensive to you or anyone else (it’s not my intent), and I’m certainly not the best player myself, but there are ways to improve by practicing, as much of Darktide’s difficulty can be overcome by working on twitch/camera movement, where to move when boss spawns, and anticipating/learning when and where mobs/ambushes spawn on the maps.
Most of these things come down to muscle memory.
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Havoc is objectively harder than the A5s and AMs I play every day. It’s a key feature of the mode and built into every single bit of it. I mean just look at the modifiers that are slapped on top of A5 difficulty:
Thanks for the list of hidden modifiers…
I really would want that they are displayed in game, and not be hidden.
The only one that is really problematic for me is this one:
I am at -75%. I don’t care with the zealot. But you cannot play a ranged veteran with an autogun with such penalty.
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Yea, I think these would be cool to see in an Inspect screen for each Havoc Order.
There’s one time I dropped into Havoc as weapon specialist Vet and then proceed to run out of ammo mid way into the game.
It was absolute pain from that point on, I was pretty confused why I barely get any ammo to proc WS only to realize later that it’s hidden modifier lol.
Even worse I’m only Vet in the team and I didn’t bring Survivalist aura with me so we were fighting over every ammo pick up.
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Oops, decided to use a fun loadout that you enjoy playing, instead of min-maxed meta loadout to counter totally not arificial difficulty modifiers? Skill issue, king.
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Vet are absent in havoc… it should say something…
I am not sure why you linked me the modifiers when I have both Rank 40 and “True Survivor” ?
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lol
We know, dude! And you were a chef!
Havoc is objectively harder, thanks to these modifiers. You said I was wrong about that and that I found Havoc hard because of a skill issue…but, yea, I am…because Havoc is objectively harder!
Actually, I didn’t say that. I tried to give you some suggestions. Things you can work on to improve. That was all.
I have asked the community on multiple occasions, both in the past and recently, what I can do to improve my Darktide skills.
If you’re unhappy with me for reaching out and trying to do so with you, I apologize and will no longer offer you advice.
What makes Havoc challenging is if your squad lacks a Purity/Chorus Zealot to counter [Blight] and a Bubble Psyker (at level 30+) to counter [The Emperor’s Fading Light] shooters, as well as relying on weapons that need a lot of ammo and cannot penetrate [Pus-Hardened skin].
The higher you progress in the Havoc tiers (rank 30+), the more the game turns into a melee game where ranged weapons have very limited use.
Aside from the specific modifiers mentioned, Havoc as a game mode is exactly the same level of difficulty as the rest of the game, so it’s more of a “counter these modifiers or suffer” situation rather than Havoc being more difficult than Auric Maelstrom (which it isn’t).
This is why artificial difficulty is discussed in the thread starter.
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Here are a few other modifiers that make Havoc objectively more difficult than A5s and AMs:
- Increased stagger thresholds on all enemies
- Increased attack speed of melee enemies
- More HP for enemies
- More enemies, more consistently (including bosses)
- Enemy spawning being unaffected by players being dead/etc.
- Melee enemies hitting harder
- Reduced toughness regen
- Reduced toughness
- Reduced ammo
- Reduced health
- Reduced vent speed
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I do not know what we are doing here or trying to accomplish, but it feels like we are stuck, so I think it is time for us to move on, Badwin.
So let us talk about something else.
Did you have a pleasant day? 
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I’m just responding to this claim:
Which is objectively false.
You are likely insulated by the fact that you are a very very skilled player, but the mode is, in fact, harder than the rest of the game because of the modifiers I linked/posted above. By virtue of these modifiers existing in Havoc, the mode is less forgiving of mistakes than the previous hardest levels, A5s and AMs (many of which give players a buff).
That’s all!
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But did you have a good day today? 
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Thanks for asking, but I come to the Darktide forums to talk about Darktide.
DM me if you want an invite to the Badwin forums.
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Badwin… he wasn’t saying the gamemode isn’t harder, read the whole quote. He listed some modifiers and said those are the ones that contribute. You are using that quote completely out of context.
I agree with this a lot aswell. The increased cleave limit or enemy HP really don’t matter much because all the meta loadouts already overkill everything by 50% and cleave way too well anyway. Increased melee damage doesn’t matter when everything is getting blendered before it can attack anyway. Increased elites don’t matter when you scale off their amount. Etc. There are a couple specific modifiers that cause 99% of the “oh, I need to counter this or we’re going to suffer” and that’s in a nutshell why the gamemode is lame as a challenge gamemode. I say that having beaten it on day 2 repeatedly. It doesn’t feel like it made me get gud in any sort of way.
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I read it, thanks. Outside of The Blight Spreads, The Emperor’s Fading Light, and Pus-Hardened Skin are all the modifiers I listed. Those other modifiers aren’t in A5/AM…how could they not make the game more difficult in Havoc?
Again, you guys are top 1%, using meta loadouts. Everyone else, with the meta loadouts, won’t find the succes you will.
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I mentioned this:
As for
That is one of my main complaints about Havoc balance yes. It’s balanced around the games meta, which is unreasonably strong, and invalidates most non-meta things.
(EDIT: I misread this, I thought you were saying withOUT the meta loadouts. I guarantee you Havoc is pretty reasonable when going heavy on the meta loadouts, you barely engage with the mechanics and you could reasonably do it with a couple level 200 randoms without voice chat, and I have in fact done so since)
Yesterday, Reginald attempted Ogryn-only runs of Havoc 40 together with 3 other playtesters, and unless they got it by now, last I heard they were unable to complete a single mission for something like 8 hours. I think even if he does manage to beat it tomorrow, the fact that four playtesters who each have tens of thousands of hours and can safely be called the best, most experienced players in the game struggle for 8 hours and de-rank their Havoc 40 assignments just because they all picked the non-meta class that can’t hardcounter most of the relevant Havoc modifiers (while still trying their best!) is really, really saying a lot about Havoc balance. Of the missions I saw them play, they were wiping in the first room. Meanwhile by just stacking veterans, zealots or psykers you can stomp this gamemode with no deaths with randoms without voice comms. Are they having a skill issue or is it really just badly designed?
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Although I am not even close to the 75%, let alone the 1% of players, I am flattered that you are including me in the same category as guys like Mr. Unc, Reginald, and ChocoB.
I do not mean to troll or anything, but I am a very casual player.
You will also notice that my Zealot support build, which I use for Havoc (I like to support), does not follow any meta builds (I have no idea how they look). I have never personally done meta loadouts because I’m not a min-maxer and I can’t play other peoples builds anyway.
If you ever need assistance with rank-ups or just hang out or anything else, I would be happy to play with you, Badwin.
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