What’s the point in having hp and toughness if it just going to be stolen from me? makes building for it pointless and is such fake lazy difficulty. Just nerf peoples builds there its harder? Boring and annoying.
Also it being percentage base mean high pools get penalized more so to bad ogryn you get nerfed more than everyone else …why its dumb af
(Regardless im gonna get all the pennences and havoc 40 and then never play it again. Like most other people will.)
You can try low-toughness cheese.
(remember, coherency regen is a flat value)
Ah, there he is.
Maybe it’s fake, but I find it works well for the kind of gamemode Havoc wants to be. The only thing I disagree with is the scarcity of ammo, this isn’t Vermintide and it kills a lot of build variety.
lowkey has a point tho
The hp and toughness numbers are literally lower its dumb af they just steal your stats right in front of you. if havoc set your hp and toghness to a number per class that would be find but they fuk you more for stacking hp and toghness. the more you stack it the more they fuk you its stupid.
I think the fake difficulty part is mostly the gunners just deleting everyone. We’re at Havoc 34 now and it doesn’t actually seem too bad outside of gunners and shooters just deleting stuff so you have to be very cautious.
I kinda feel like the difficulty curve should’ve stopped at 30, and instead 30-40 should’ve introduced more mutators. Instead they just made 30-40 grind your ballsack to dust via total gunner domination. We’re getting there but man that’s such a cheap way to scale it. Also pretty restrictive, most classes lose 90% of their viable builds cause of it and you rely on certain abilities and high mobility weps to deal with it.
I’m not gonna complain about the hard mode being hard and requiring an amount of coordination, but I’ll say that it’s so restrictive that none of us are probably going to ever touch this gamemode again after hitting 40. Rather have some variety
True
The lowered HP, and Toughness do not matter one bit.
That is what Havoc seems to be about atm.
Which is kind of fine, but the Gunner spam plus the added ammo restriction quickly make Psykers the absolute gods of this game mode. The bubble is already silly strong during normal Mael, but becomes a divine blessing sent by big E himself in havoc. It doesnt help that the biggest threat are the chaff gunners, which Bubbles can shut down by spreading flame stacks.
We tried Smokes too. The usual problems materialized. People got gunned down in the middle of the smoke, or made the mistake of misjudging the elusive border of the smoke and got slaughtered.
The only thing better than a bubble Psyker is two bubble Psykers.
They really should consider just making smokes a stealth field like Bardin’s, for the whole team, at the cost of having only one at a time and no chance it’ll spawn on elite kill if you take that one talent, maybe even a longer cooldown if you take grenadier.
I kinda get OPs point. The drop in toughness/HP would be fine if it didn’t also come with MASSIVELY buffed ranged enemies. I mean a single assaulty guardsman or whatever they’re called can delete your whole toughness bar and a majority of your HP bar in less than a second. It’s a little wacky. Sure makes things hard but it does feel slightly cheap when there’s 20-30 of em hanging around and you have no ammo.
The gamemode is generally not very well thought out, with those modifiers. So the toughness reduction is flat, meaning Vet can still have 200 toughness. Ogryn has the lowest base toughness so it affects him the most, he has a hard time getting even 100 toughness now. But the HP reduction is a percentage, so most classes are barely affected except for ogryn who loses hundreds of HP to it. It just seems like very little thought was put into how different classes will be affected.
I mean the modifier is -45 toughness and Ogryn has 50 base toughness lol
I thought I was lagging. Ragers seemed a bit drunk trying to swing slowly.
About ranged enemies.
They have removed rather than reduced player stagger from certain enemies too.
People try to avoid gunfire by going directly at them, or dodge then going directly, but A and W or D and W diagonal sprint/dash reduces their tracking more. As going in a straight line they don’t have to correct aim, this way they have to track left or right whilst at same time you’re moving forward in diagonal manner. Works well against flamers.
For Havoc.
Vet’s field improv really useful for corruption heal here. Good reason just to run that class for this game mode.
Yeah there’s a lot of pigeonholing going on with these toughness nerfs at higher difficulties. Ranged insta-deletes my psyker to a ridiculous degree. A single shotgun blast and you’re down.
Ventilation purge or lights-out results in a lot of surprise deaths. Yeah there were 3 shotgunners behind those groaners that you couldn’t see, too bad.
Makes the game become this silly sit around a corner slowly wittling them down, which many of the maps are made to actively discourage as enemies can spawn from literally all directions, or go bubble-build-only thing.
When even a single lasgun wielding scab can take you to 50% health in one volley it’s become ridiculous. Some of the gunner walls, if there’s 3 or 4 of them shooting at you then even peeking out for 10 miliseconds to get a brainburst going can still end up killing you if the “stunlock” happens to bite in that moment.
It’s the unfortunate consequence of having totally gamebreaking abilities in the game that outpower everything else in the game (VoC spam, psykinetics aura, knife/ds mobility) and then balancing around it. This is why I was hoping they would address the power creep before adding difficult content
Yeah my pure tank of an Ogryn feels like origami in havoc.
Even at havoc level 20, roughly 4 bullets deletes my entire toughness. And I have all toughness and hp nodes on my tree as well as 5 hp/toughness on all 3 curios and 2 of the curios have full gunner resistance. That’s insane.
Toughness gating exists for a reason.
“Hey so we have this core anti frustration mechanic designed to keep shooters from being frustrating to fight.”
“Ah, but we need to slap on some cheesy difficulty, remove it.”
“Won’t that just not be fun to play?”
“Do it.”
I wish the main game did not have toughness gating
If it was actually designed around it then sure. VT2 was totally playable without temp health, you just had to be good at dodging. You physically can’t dodge all the gunfire especially on Havoc with the sped up shooters though, so the only way around it is certain strategies (or playing Vet and just tanking it)