There's one thing I don't understand, maybe someone can help me.
The vast majority of players want the derank system changed for Havoc. Why is Fatshark so stubbornly clinging to this pointless system? Because ranks can drop, the player base decreases. Why does Fatshark want fewer players? Fatshark is unique in the market for not listening to player feedback. Instead, they stubbornly stick to something meaningless. How many more hate comments will Fatshark ignore before removing the derank system? Another question is, how does Fatshark justify maintaining a derank system that only serves to reduce the player base, resulting in everyone losing, including Fatshark?
So, Fatshark, every time players get frustrated about losing their current Havoc rank, you lose too, because players stop playing your game. Congratulations, Fatshark.
I’d pay dockets/platsteel/diamantine to lock my level so I can’t derank. Or to reroll map/modifiers OR to regain “chances”. Anything but this……and then the new seaon comes and I’m back to 30….why?
Because it would probably take a while to change the whole system around, right. It’s not like some overnight thing & would take a bit of work, I’m assuming. I mean, I also don’t agree with the de-rank/demote system either. I feel that if you’ve gotten Havoc-40, at least a few times or so, the title/rank should stay permanently, instead of artificially setting us back every season. I think that’s more than fair for us experienced players, who jumped through all those hoops to earn it. If they’re going to keep this system, don’t set the players back, at least that already earned 40, it’s not that hard. Not all of us are lucky enough to have pre-mades to catch up to 40 every season. Some of us (not including me) are stuck in de-rank hell with pubs & are miserable AF. This has to be the most anti-fun system I’ve ever seen in a PvE game, it sucks. I have a buddy that’s amazing at this game & Havoc-worthy too, just like a bunch of us, but refuses to play Havoc because of the idiotic de-rank system. Which is totally understandable. If it wasn’t for the system, he said he’d play this mode way more often if it was readily available for play.
All these questions could have been asked about most of the design choices for this game outside of the core combat loop.
Why on earth did Fatshark go live with, double down on, and keep the game’s initial gacha-crafting system for two years when it was an immediate open bleeding wound in nearly every user and professional review of the game? Why don’t they have more than one set of cosmetics to buy for the new classes? Why isn’t there a Solo mode?
Why on earth did Fatshark think a deranking ladder was a good idea in a coop PvE game? Why are they keeping it? Nobody knows. Fatshark knows people hate these things, and don’t appear to want to talk about why they think these design choices are good ideas or what value they bring, but they certainly keep trying to hamfist mechanisms from wildly different genres into places they don’t belong.
Yeah a system should be more forgiving, 3 try is just too few, 5 try before derank maybe could be good. There are bad players even on high havoc, or even if with good team the ai drector decide to throw at you everything and kill the team, or you just got unlucky, 1 mistake is enough for a wipe. I dont say remove the ranking system, but add 5 try before 1 derank.
I’d arguee otherwise. With current system in place, having 40th havoc is something that has to be really earned, not just one time fluke when you get ultra-carried by someone else and lucky seed.
Only thing I’d change, is what is show, so asigment level would be on display, not highest havoc beaten.
hah, good one 
randoms every time and honestly I dont even bother with anything but the one 40 match to get it over with quickly.
so imagine lots of “rejected” going from 0 to finding a “team” even if I proved time and again I cleared havov40 in the first go 
like mr olympia having to qualify again for every contest to follow.
I already made it to #1 why the fkk would I have to proof anything ever again?
same reason I retired my quake account at some 25+ k/d, there’s nothing more to cement my status above that so why still jump through the damn hoops?
some wannabe talking trash, shove him the numbers, me boss you not, now shush
Simple answer is rEtEnTiOn.
They will have some specialist advisor telling them how to incorporate gambling techniques into their game. I will eat my shoes if that isn’t the truth.
Thing is, they could keep the mechanic but make it 90% less toxic by a simple change: abolish the 3 strike system.
Allow people infinite tries per week to complete a mission higher or equal to their current rank.
That’s it. That’s all that needs to change.
So you only get demoted by a single rank at the weekly reset if you haven’t completed a mission higher or equal that week.
The rEtEnTiOn mechanic is still there but it means people can be less stressed about the individual missions and instead have some fun and experiment.
It’s the 3 strike system (aka teammate RNG) that is pure filth. More so than the demotion/rank system tbh.
In an ideal world the demotion and rank would be gone but we all know that FS will never do that so my compromise would please all parties in at least an acceptable fashion.
In an ideal world you guys would socialize and make premades and these threads wouldn’t exist!
In an ideal world you guys would realize that doing Havoc with randoms is a bonus option and not the optimal way to go about it and you would act accordingly!
And so on and on and on…
Shame, i was hoping we gonna share some more stories about how amazing you think you are and talk further about your Quake exploits 
Socialise? Sorry but mind your own business pal. Peoples lives are different and some of us have kids and full time jobs and our free time is totally unpredictable.
And some of us have conditions that make “socialising" very uncomfortable. I use gaming as an anxiety release as much as an aid to help reduce the noisy brain. I don’t need a layer of social anxiety added to it just so I can play the highest difficulty game mode, which should be freely accessible to players who’ve completed all other difficulties and modes.
It’s why I think the gatekeeping could be done using penance points. That would actually make sense. Rather than teammate RNG.
This is not an ideal world so how about we think of mechanics that fix the game rather than force social constructs onto people because of an ill-conceived game mechanic?
Yes, socialize!
And you can tell that i’m minding my business by not wanting to bend the endgame content out of pure entitlement and personal private issues
Says who? Do you have any idea how arrogant it sound?
Do you think we are all NPC’s just waiting for you to tell us what mechanic needs fixing and whats ill-conceived and that’s it? Debate over and you won it as the bearer of one true orthodoxy? MadMartigan said so and thus its proclaimed and decreed?
I dont think the mechanic needs fixing and i don’t think the mechanis is ill-conceived and i don’t think socializing in a coop endgame content is a social construct that needs any form of fixing. And there are many like me!
But when its the other way around its all good?
Such as?
Such as?
Having said that, i don’t think you outburst is warranted or earned
@FatsharkJulia explain to me why was this post hidden and moderated and why is the report system so easy to abuse thx
I’m not saying the rank system is perfectly engineered, it has glaring issues, but think about what a big common problem with non-Havoc games is. It’s people leaving after going down. For a Havoc game that would just totally ruin the gamemode if it wasn’t punished in some way.
The alternative to this is enabling some sort of Havoc quickplay to backfill leavers. Which to be fair a lot of people want and I also think might just fix a lot of Havocs problems, however Fatshark probably doesn’t want to throw out the entire system they designed.
oh the weekly havoc derank complaint…
dear god fatshark please just make rank unlocking permanent already so havoc isnt miserable, i’d actually wanna play havoc if i could just stay at rank 40 or just be able to select any rank freely
Genuine question, what is being “earned” that needs to be gatekept in such a way? There’s no public leaderboard, there’s no rewards (aside from a cosmetic title that’s kept indefinitely), even access to the difficulty level isn’t necessarily restricted as long as you have a current H40 friend.
That’s 100% true about most of this game, Havoc or not, but it’s also just not how most people interact with the title and Fatshark isn’t anywhere near as good at encouraging or facilitating this behavior as competitor titles like Helldivers or DRG. There’s no lounge or common lobby, players don’t even necessarily inhabit the same instance of the Morningstar as their party, no pre-game drinks at the bar or conversation about tactical plan and where to drop before the mission, etc.
As is with Havoc, the mandatory use Party finder feels painfully forced rather than organic, and doesn’t replace the interactions present in the other mentioned titles, particularly as it largely functions as a gear/build check more than an interaction facilitator.
Lol mine and Index posts got flagged. Wow the pettiness is something else.
He called Index a boomer then went on to say the most boomer stuff I’ve ever heard and then flagged us. The irony.
I’ve already covered these things in previous suggestions but I think the havoc design of ‘blocking the player from a new mission until current mission is finished’ should actually be rolled out to the main mission board. It’s pretty effective imo.
I also think there should be a difficulty above auric (exterminatus?) that is basically a quickplay-available difficulty on the main board that is the same challenge as H40. It should unlock after X amount of penance points - then you know the player has at least had a good exposure to many parts of the game.
Then my above suggestion about free tries all week until weekly reset on havoc itself would still maintain the same rank/derank but would open it up to a more flexible platform. People aren’t going to be able to cheat their way through it but they get as many tries as they want. This way the host rank isn’t just gifted to people who have premades and loads of spare time, and the teammate RNG is (in a roundabout way) greatly reduced by allowing a larger pool and attempts. There would beore people of reasonable skill being able to host.
A player can earn a lot of penance points even by playing only on the Uprising difficulty level
Depends how many penance points we’re talking though. For the hardest difficulty it should be a lot
Or it could be a specific set of penances. But really having loads of penance points would mean they’re experienced in the game. It’s as good a metric as is available to use in-game imo.
I have over 7k penance points - so pretty much all of them bar the private ones and a couple of the orthus offensive as that’s not really possible anymore.
So maybe like 6k points? I’ve just plucked that out my head but it would need to be high.
I guess they could unlock a whole new set of experience levels and you need to reach a certain amount. But again I think penance points are more valuable as they force you to learn the different bits of the game. Xp can just be earned with 1 class and 1 weapon.
If you consider Havoc as a mode that requires you to find the optimal group beforehand, with the appropriate builds and classes, you come to the conclusion that Fatshark hasn't even begun to consider the topic.
Fatshark's target audience is the casual player who is online occasionally, plays Aurics or lower, and buys cosmetic items. Havoc is such a poorly conceived system that it should be obvious to everyone that this mode is for a tiny fraction of the community and is almost irrelevant to Fatshark.
If that weren't the case, they would have addressed the recurring criticism long ago, or wouldn't have released this flawed Havoc mode in the first place.
I just join 40 for clearance level and rewards every season, I cant be bothered to level my own to 40 only for it to drop to 30. If I had a 4 man group maybe, but I primarily play solo que without coms.
Even the level up 3 levels at a time is stupid, why make it so hard to get to 40 if it’s going to drop every season? It just punishes solo que players.
The only way to have 40 reasonably is to have a 4 man and go to 40 every season reset, then once youre at the 40 then you can solo que and sit on your 40.
Can you solo que from 30-40? Maybe if you sit around for an hour every time in party finder being super selective. Honestly just not worth it