Havoc deranking IS DUMB. im a 2000 hour player. I was at lvl 36. im now at 17 havoc. because im constantly in games with people who die to basic waves. just a stupid thing to punish players when they have to rely on others knowing the game…
12 Likes
its what happens when the best players reach goal and quit, the others are left behind in elo hell, you got scammed by Order #66
1 Like
like its insane man. since the changes to havoc being harder im never getting to 40 now lol. just played another game just now. Guy went down at beginning insta quit. we tried 3 manning it and failed on twins at event.
1 Like
and bam another level degraded… i have plenty of 40 clears and even true survivor. I feel like im having to carry every single game im in and if i dont we fail.
you were spoiled by that short period of time where the players you meet cared about winning
now its the ‘‘play for fun with NO META builds’’ time
and you are stuck between bad players and good players that play off meta hiding behind the lvl 40 parachute
2 Likes
they need to just remove deranking all together. Why do companies feel like the answer in gaming is punishment still… We play to have fun and relax. Watching your rank go down from no fault of your own is looney concept
6 Likes
A decaying ladder (that’s effectively invisible, nobody can directly see your standing) is inherently and fundamentally an incorrect and inappropriate mechanic in a coop PvE game.
It’s another “good idea fairy” moment from whatever Dev Lead/C-Suite thought RNG Gacha-crafting was a good idea. It was a bad idea that didn’t work out well when World of Warcraft did it…20 years ago, and the concept hasn’t aged any better. Someone in the studio should be legitimately be both professionally and personally embarrassed at hamfisting a janky FOMO MMO retention mechanic into what is essentially an L4D clone, but much like Crafting, they’re gonna keep doubling down on keeping it until long after the optimal point to fix it passes.
8 Likes
My take is that Havoc was FatShark’s solution to balancing this game, since game balance went out of control after patch 13 they just gave up on doing it, they didn’t want to upset people more than they did in the past, so they thought to solve the issue by releasing Havoc mode, where all the overpowered builds had a place
It was a genious attempt on their part to solve the issue of players being left to spectate their own games by those that played the most overpowered builds
Playing overpowered builds in normal games is just as inappropriate as playing off meta builds in Havoc now
of course the players are left free to be inappropriate, and thats great, but Havoc mod should decrease the stress on those players that kept complaining on the forums that plasma gun ruined all their normal damnation runs
i like Havoc, i think its a step in the good direction, the ranking system worked, for a cuple of weeks before Hotfix #66, it could have been hursh for the more sensible players but it had the purpose on guaranteeing everyone were doing their absolute best to not loose the game, and at the same time kept enough experienced players around to keep the mod alive
Hotfix #66 brought division between those nobles who reachd 40, and peasants that are still climbing, i think the current state is the worse possible outcome
if reaching 40 wouldn’t give you any advantages you wouldn’t feel the pressure to reach it
2 Likes
Had a great group yesterday, someone suggested playing havoc after we bullied maelstrom, so the “job Interview” part I hate most about havoc was left out.
We lost due to some unfortunate boss spawns, but had a good time. Only to be greeted with “you lost a deployment”. What a way to ruin the fun.
3 Likes
the best part about havoc was that players wouldn’t quit you because they all had something to loose
1 Like
Book? Book.
4 Likes
tbh, players wanted deranking to stop so they could try new things. fatshark did that, but only for the lv40s, dividing the already small player base into 40s and varlets. because of “stakes and tension”, that was the reasoning. well, it only makes me feel punished for even playing, and getting to 40 so this nonsense stops a chore instead of having fun with the challenge.
2 Likes
to me its the be carefull what you wish for story all over again, and FS fell for it again
2 Likes
I was at 30 but now im at 24 and I rarely play havoc cuz 98% of all randoms 20-30 are absolutely horrid players who almost always die in 5-10 minutes and leave the game. Never mind the people who leave at the ready up screen leaving you with a bot. As far as im concerned the game mode is dead until they get rid of the demote mechanic. Ive only been doing some random mission every week just to stay where I am and going back to the auric board. I also find it hilarious that even now we still have noobs filling every other maelstrom basically throwing cuz they wanna go play havoc even though theyre like heresy players if that.
Its almost like two difficulties have been ruined just because havoc exists. I had a maelstrom game the other day where we had a psyker in the pre game lobby who left and I didnt check gear so I didnt know why. 5 minutes later my teammates are floundering all over the place with random builds and I was able to carry them like half way through the run until we ultimately lost. I also think alot of maelstrom runs have some random duo or trio of horrible players in it that want to play havoc because often times you quickly realize you are the only capable player in the lobby. I played with a guy the other day in a mission we of course quickly lost who went from 30-24 in one day. He lost like 20 runs in a row just that day alone and I bet most of them were lost within ten minutes. I think its absolutely hilarious that so many horrible malice players want to play havoc so they somehow get carried all the way to 20+ missions and now theyre in your game throwing with some random build and leaving when they die 5 minutes into a run. God forbid people who suck at the game dont try to skip like 4 difficulties to go play something thats the most difficultend game content we have. Lost of people in these havoc missions have never step foot in a monster special mission or a hi shock mission and it shows. Unfortunately fomo is real with havoc and that doesnt just pertain to the cash shop.
FS, can we please skip to the end where deranking is removed instead of another half-way measure?
6 Likes
The level 40s get to try new builds without having to worry.
1 Like
Remove deranking, change the demotion button to a reroll map button. Please do not take six months to do this.
8 Likes
The fact that you can lose just because of the seed of the map or the hex bound hosts or the boss spawns is frustrating enough but when you couple that with deranking and the horrendous modifiers it makes for a miserable experience and its why less and less people even engage with havoc. Id love to play havoc cuz hi shock missions and maelstroms are a snooze fest nowqdays but fatshark is doing everything in their power to make it the game mode noone wants to engage with. You either fall asleep casually walking through scab only monster special missions or you play havoc and want to gouge your eyes out with a fork your pick.
1 Like
It’s frustrating that they could fix so many complaints in three easy steps but won’t happen because someone high up at fatshark just can’t let go of the stupid RNG elements to EVERYTHING.
-
Remove deranking, it provides no gameplay benefit.
-
Let players choose any of the maps and modifiers for completed difficulties
-
Sleep (because players are happy they get to play the game without relying on random maps and modifiers with random teammates dropping their tier to yet another random map and set of modifiers infinitum)
3 Likes
While I’ve been agreeing about your statements toward the current state of Havoc this past while, I think the focus on this like ‘it’s the ranking system reverting it will fix everything’ is just fundamentally incorrect.
The ranking system was not what was keeping players, what was keeping players was the fact it was a new mode, with new penances that needed to be grinded, that happened to have a decaying ranking system thrown on top of it. If anything, the ranking system was actually even more proven to be a detriment, why? because before, when people played, it was when the ranking system functionally didn’t exist. What do I mean by that? Well, because the people that weren’t hosting didn’t get dinged, as such you had people (like myself) just clicking into any game that showed up because ‘why not doesn’t cost me anything right?’.
Now it’s ‘ducked at both ends’, the joiners have to be super particular about who they join, and the hosters need to be super particular on who they let in. And if you fail? Everybody loses. Now the whole mood gets wiped for EVERYone, and instead of up to 12 tries a difficulty you get 3 (this not even to mention the fact that this havoc rotation is a LOT harder than before, meaning not only are the punishments way more severe, but the likelihood of getting hit by them is also way more likely, even through no fault of your own/through everyone doing their absolute best, resulting in even more aggravation when the game just BS’s you and everyone sees the ‘get ducked’ pop up). And what happened after this update went live? Everyone complained, so loud they made the bandaid fix of allowing 40 to keep there rank.
And what did that cause? everything else you’ve been describing. The haves and the have nots, the 40’s having fun in their pent houses while the ‘everyone else’ rapidly get eaten by the piranhas as a lose for one is a lose for all. Now the trolls have a field day as they aren’t ruining 1 persons day, they are ruining the whole squads. The 40’s don’t care and drag down games with their lack of caring, while the everyone else gets continual thread level of angry at the fact the game mode is now basically unplayable. All the people (like myself) that finished everything and would otherwise have the skill don’t want to deal with it so we don’t play, everyone else flounders in the pool, grabbing on to each other trying to float.
There’s also the fact that Darktide is just on it’s ‘downward trend’ to. A major update happened, people played it, people tried it over the course of the months after, people are done playing darktide until the next major update. The last major update also made yet another game mode, once again splitting the community, and placing all the people that might have tried to work their way through havoc into a for fun random fest for lore and funny effects. Now THAT’s on the front cover, making most see that, havoc is forgotten about, and given the UI mismanagement among everything else, most players that walk back in won’t even know havoc exists unless they question this random button on the lower right of their screen in the mission menu, that takes them to this cluttered mess with little explanation before they quickly back out and go to play their Damnation like they wanted to. The community had to figure out what difficulty each havoc level represented for Emprors sake, instead of just ‘Malice 1-9, Heresy 1-10, damnation 1-21’, we got ‘1-40…have fun’. Could go on an even wider tangent, but I’ve ‘yapped’ enough.
Suffice it/all that to say, main way you’re getting a havoc population again, based on the above among a few other stated factors in other threads:
-
Remove Deranking, instead go back to displaying next to your name your CURRENT weeks completed havoc level, with your last weeks havoc level in parenthesis (so a new week would result in a 0 (40)). This will let players know both what people are likely to take the current mission seriously [haven’t finished a run this week but did last week, or are currently sitting at double 40’s] to at least a somewhat better degree, while also providing something for the ‘all timers’ to keep active on their person as a ‘badge of honer’ week over week.
-
Add a ‘quick fill’ option in the Party Finder that automatically requests you join games between a set amount of difficulty levels. This will function both as a ‘request to join’ for open games, but also as an auto fill (either as an ‘initail matchmaking search’ before doing the request/approve, or as a back up for if nobody accepts your requests, or both), to allow players such as myself that have ‘finished havoc’ but still want to do it a ‘quick and easy’ button right above the party finder that will get you into a game without visually seeing all the ‘no thank yous’ forced upon you, while also serving the function of helping to more easily fill up existing games/make someone leaving a game not entirely an immediate lost cause. By extension one can add an ‘auto fill me’ party finder option when hosting to just allow the first 3 rejects to pop into your squad (this likely needing to be weighted to prefer a ‘mixed squad’ of one of each class, and only default to not that if there isn’t enough people in the que to pull it off), this would be harder to implement I’d think though given the mixture of those in a que + incoming requests so ‘not required’.
-
Make the above only accessible to those that have cleared 40/cleared havoc 40 that season. Thus insuring those autofilling at least knew what they where doing, or still know in the case of it being a seasonal reset. If seasonal is chosen, this would also give each season a ‘burst’ of havoc players wanting to re-up their autofill status, which would in turn have people actually engage with whatever you made havoc into that season. This all while not locking people out of trying over and over to get their goodies, just removing the terrible, horrible, abysmal feeling of failing the content that is literally supposed to be failed because it is HARD and then getting punished more than just the ‘you failed the emperor’ screen.
-
With all these changes, shift the derank button into a menu button that lets you pick your desired havoc level from the ones you’ve ‘unlocked’ and re-roll your mission into that desired level. Since it’s now just a ‘get level you’re good’ system, this would allow people to go until they get the map and modifiers they want, maybe even giving a purpose for melk coins for these late game players by having each roll cost melk coins after the first each week, while still re-rolling per completions. Haza, even more reason to do this, could make it an optional resource dump to with plasteel/diamantine/gold being a part of it too.
breaths, ok, with that, I think you’d have ‘the best Havoc’, probably…to me at least. Some, player retention mechanics, easier access for those that have ‘won’, and a upward progress curve that doesn’t make you want to curse out your team mates every time you lose. Incredible stuff (and when it comes to the issue of lower rank games not getting filled, could always add some form of weekly incentive to playing lower rank games. Not sure what could be provided beyond Aquilas at this point for ‘what is literally supposed to be the highest rank players’, but hay, whatever it ends up being it would be a start. Maybe a free additional resource chest after doing 10 1-30 havoc games below your clearance level).