Havoc 1.0 was better

[Hrupo]

Change my mind. There were fewer enemies and it was easier but overall player power was also weaker.

More builds and weapons were viable because you weren’t being spammed with armor all game.

The only real frustrating modifier was blight spreads.

The new Havoc rank up system was literally a monkeys paw curls type of deal. Fatshark “listened” to the players and didn’t have you demote on a havoc lower than your own, but then got rid of your Havoc ranking up at the end of the week? We already have the option to demote if we want, this just removed player agency.

I queued a 40 with a 3 stack who were messing around and having fun using stuff like devils claw, heavy sword, and las pistol and all that. More power to em but my havoc went from a 31 to a 26 by the end of it (kill me). But you know what they say, hate the game not the player (right?).

Havoc needed changes but 2.0 wasn’t it. Boss spawn tiles are incredibly lazy, carapace spam is lazy. Tox bomber spam isn’t fun, but lazy. Enemy spam makes the audio bugs that have been around for literal YEARS now even worse. The new modifiers that were clearly built to “counter” the meta only solidified that same meta and made build variety even worse.

Psyker, Veteran, and Hive Scum have literally already power crept Arbitrator (imo) and that’s due to havoc being the unbalanced mess that it is. Which then branches out and ruins the experience players have in lower difficulties because player power is too high, so anyone who wants an actual challenge needs to suffer through the party finder which is a whole nother problem.

It’s like the team that manages Havoc is just checking to see if their play-testers are able to beat the map and then going “ok looks good, ship it out.” Otherwise I just can’t understand how they let Havoc be in such an artificially difficult, buggy, frustrating state that it’s in.

[Vror]

@Hrupo

There were fewer enemies and it was easier but overall player power was also weaker.

Players were more powerful in comparison to the enemies than they’re right now in current Havoc (even 2.0 Havoc)

@Hrupo

More builds and weapons were viable because you weren’t being spammed with armor all game.

True to a certain degree however, that’s cuz most players played double chorus, shout and bubble

Weapons that couldn’t outrun gunners were really bad in that season
Ranged outside of Pysker wasn’t viable due to Pus Hardened Enemies

@Hrupo

The only real frustrating modifier was blight spreads.

Cuz Moebian 21st and Pus Hardened Enemies were nothingburgers for the mode

Only Cranial Corruption (due to how megabuffed The Emperor’s Fading Light gunners were) and Blight Spreads were relevant

Speaking of which, The Emperor’s Fading light was very toxic back then, shooters were buffed too much during that season

@Hrupo

The new Havoc rank up system was literally a monkeys paw curls type of deal. Fatshark “listened” to the players and didn’t have you demote on a havoc lower than your own, but then got rid of your Havoc ranking up at the end of the week? We already have the option to demote if we want, this just removed player agency.

I think the system needs a whole rework

Win 1 to be 40 is stupid, but needing to win so many 40s to get your assignment to 40 is also stupid

I don’t know exactly how would I fix it however

@Hrupo

I queued a 40 with a 3 stack who were messing around and having fun using stuff like devils claw, heavy sword, and las pistol and all that. More power to em but my havoc went from a 31 to a 26 by the end of it (kill me). But you know what they say, hate the game not the player (right?)

Kinda on you for seeing them use that after the 1st attempt and not asking “hey I’m currently trying to rank up, could you tryhard pls?” or something of the sort (or not leaving right away)

@Hrupo

Havoc needed changes but 2.0 wasn’t it.

I enjoyed the inclusion of twins, the new modifiers it brought (yes even pink, pink without rotten / DR related buffs is fun), the inclusion of weakened monstrosities, the inclusion of blockades, and the few extra changes it made

@Hrupo

Boss spawn tiles are incredibly lazy, carapace spam is lazy. Tox bomber spam isn’t fun, but lazy

Truth nuke

@Hrupo

Enemy spam makes the audio bugs that have been around for literal YEARS now even worse. The new modifiers that were clearly built to “counter” the meta only solidified that same meta and made build variety even worse.

Kinda truth nuke? The audio thing 100% but I feel I see a lot more variety than back in 1.0

in 1.0 people just played DS, inferno, plasma, flamer, and that was essentially it. Boss killing was a very low priority due to them not being relevant (only 3 monstrosities, 3 caps, and that’s it, since 2.0 you get 2-4 monstrosities, 2-3 caps, 80% chance of twins, and also 10% chance to spawn a weakened monstrosity replacing a special)

Starting 2.0 I’ve seen thunderhammer/eviscerator, charge/stealth, Knife, Ogryn was made relevant (a little overtuned yes but y’know), Relic Blade/Greatsword, and a few more

@Hrupo

Psyker, Veteran have literally already power crept Arbitrator (imo)

I mean the reworks were gonna happen anyways, they experimented with ogryn, then arbites, then of course the normal classes were gonna be buffed

Arbites was also nerfed

@Hrupo

and that’s due to havoc being the unbalanced mess that it is. Which then branches out and ruins the experience players have in lower difficulties because player power is too high, so anyone who wants an actual challenge needs to suffer through the party finder which is a whole nother problem.

It’s not exactly cuz of Havoc, FS simply wants the average gamer to perform better, keep them in.

Havoc was made so we, the players who already did well in Malestrom without the megabuffs, wouldn’t get bored out of our minds and leave the game

@Hrupo

It’s like the team that manages Havoc is just checking to see if their play-testers are able to beat the map and then going “ok looks good, ship it out.” Otherwise I just can’t understand how they let Havoc be in such an artificially difficult, buggy, frustrating state that it’s in.

It barely has bugs compared to 1.0 and 2.0 to this day tho

Only some rituals in some maps are glitched, and rotten being mega infuriating due to it forcing meta even more. Blight Spreads is not that bad, it’s maybe annoying at most, but not bad. Red is perfect tho

[Hrupo]

You saw a lot of dueling sword / plasma / double chorus because players were rushing to get their 40 and true survivor title. I’d argue there’d be more variety if they let the game mode sit for a while without the drastic changes.

Havoc 1.0 did need bosses yeah, but 2.0 did another monkeys paw curls type of deal. Mid 20 havocs shouldn’t be getting boss rushed on the snowy map barrel bridge by twins and 2 chaos spawns with a daemon host spawn blocking one of the paths but here we are.

@Vror

It barely has bugs compared to 1.0 and 2.0 to this day tho

Audio bugs are considerably worse.

[eatingsand]

It was more fun to have more freedom with randoms. The new Havoc concept, balancing and especially the modifiers are mathematically too tight to the point where it’s not really that interesting to play off-meta unless you really want to spend the entire mission being meatwalled. And I happen to like all the off-meta builds more than the meta ones, generally, so overall I agree with OP

[Terrorgheist]

@Hrupo

You saw a lot of dueling sword / plasma / double chorus because players were rushing to get their 40 and true survivor title. I’d argue there’d be more variety if they let the game mode sit for a while without the drastic changes.

Nah the majority even with 40 Clearance already are still playing the exact same Abilities and Weapons since Havoc was added into the Game. From my experience the Meta in Havoc changed like…not at all. Its literally still 1:1 the same as before

@Hrupo

Audio bugs are considerably worse.

Some Mods definitely cause Audio Issues with the Game, when i use some i get Audio Issues as well. Without any Mods i have absolutely zero Audio Issues in the Game and everyone i know and played the Game has zero issues with that as well whether in Havoc or Auric and MS with lots of Poxbursters.

[Hrupo]

Stop the cap

[Terrorgheist]

What cap exactly? Would be nicer if you could actually give some arguments on what is wrong what i wrote instead of just replying with Brainrot Slop which honestly just ridicules your entire Post now.

Like y’know having an actual conversation. Maybe learn a thing and change ones opinion and this sort of stuff. Is that to much to ask for

[Hrupo]

Audio bugs are a pretty universal issue that gets worse especially the higher into havoc you go. There are forum threads and YouTube videos discussing how bad it’s gotten.

[Terrorgheist]

Ok thats better, something to work with.

Im aware of those Vids and Posts, even made one myself on my old Acc here some time ago, but at least for me and friends i got into the Game i/we often played both with and w/o Mods and it was always exclusively when i/we had Mods on that the Game had audio issues and at least on my end i only play Auric / MS / Havoc; especially in Auric MS with Poxburster / Mutant Modifier it was the worst. A few Burster spawned and every other Audio went dampened/entirely Off and you just heard the clicking of like one-two poxbursters and barely anything else. But i never had that problem when playing w/o Mods so idk.

Maybe its not properly optimized for every Audio Driver or the likes? Not sure but seems to me to make sense that it is that else idk

[Brad9191]

@Terrorgheist

i know and played the Game has zero issues with that as well whether in Havoc or Auric and MS with lots of Poxbursters.

Are you sure you’ve played a lot? lol. This is just incorrect. Silent poxes, trappers, crushers, snipers are still issues till this day & they refuse to fix this. There are parts of maps where you cannot even hear poxes, let alone defend yourself from it. I’ll give you an example, because I’ve been doing this since beta. Snipers… They used to make a swoosh sound with a flash of light when they aimed at you before the shot. Now they don’t, there’s no warning whatsoever anymore, an obvious & blatant example. The last time I’ve heard these sounds was like almost a year ago or more. I do use mods, but even without them, still the same issues. I’ve actually had to install sound mods to even get warnings, which is just sad, because the Dev’s don’t want to fix sht, they just want to sell new classes for money. This is the real reality.

[Terrorgheist]

@Brad9191

Are you sure you’ve played a lot?

I’d say ~800 Hours is a lot

[Brad9191]

That’s wild, though for such an incorrect take lol. 800 is okay, not too crazy. But still they need to fix audio issues.

[Terrorgheist]

@Brad9191

That’s wild, though for such an incorrect take lol

How is it incorrect tho from my perspective when i never had any issue with the Audio w/o Mods and none of any of the IRL Friends i managed to get into the Game for some time through great effort never had any either and from my experience it has always been when im playing with Mods and i switch a lot between playing with and without Mods

[Terrorgheist]

Thinking about it i have to revert my point, i had issues with the audio when i switched from my Old Cloud II to Cloud III Headset

[Brad9191]

Because literally the vast majority of people have the same issues, durp-de-durp & I just provided actual evidence of this occuring & what another stupid take. From ‘my prospective’ lol GTFO.

[Terrorgheist]

Quit the insults m8

[Brad9191]

Well, stop maybe stop saying things that are obviously incorrect. lol How’s that?

[Terrorgheist]

Yeah so only the posts echoing your opinion count got it. Everyone saying otherwise is obviously incorrect, dumb and should GTFO. Not even able to hold an proper conversation about it, nope - immediately got to tell the other person he should GTFO once it doesnt confirm your opinion.

Simply as said my experience and where tf is that ‘vast majority’ you speak of…the ‘vast majority’ of players don’t even play on the difficulties where it becomes an issue for some but dies with their Ogryn or Chorus Zealot on Sediiton Difficulty

[Rvl]

The game has major sound issues, especially in havoc. On Dark Communion map there’s an archway right before the cathedral where sounds get often bugged and you can’t hear anything that’s happening on the other side of the arch gate, depending on where you stand (so either you can’t hear half the enemies spawning behind you, or in front of you).

I think lots of people playing auric and havoc especially experience these issues, for me personally it’s a daily occurance. Soundless trappers that jump right behind you from elevation without any notification, bursters jumping around the corners without the ticking sounds, etc.

[Terrorgheist]

Like im not saying it doesn’t exist. Just saying from my experience and those of everyone i ever played with and what the cause most likely is…only ever had those issues being spoken of when using Mods..Which became really apparent when Hive Cum released and i had to play w/o Mods again because they weren’t updated. Missed the QoL but Game runs like ten times better.