Havoc adjustments

Good evening Fatshark team and community. I’ve been playing Havoc mode with a friend and any two randoms for a little while on and off and at first I enjoyed it, but that was before the last update to it.

The mode initially felt a similar sort of challenge as Maelstrom Auric, but now at around level 20 with this newer version of it, it feels ridiculous and barely enjoyable at all. I barely want to imagine how maniacally difficult lv30 - 40 havoc levels are… but I’d guess that it’s something like 10 enemy buffs and you have 5 bosses that you have to deal with in one area… :face_with_diagonal_mouth: :squinting_face_with_tongue:

Not only does it spam buffed enemies at you constantly (there’s barely any room to breathe) - I mean Auric Maelstrom gives you a little respite, and look, I know that’s sort of part and parcel of the term “havoc” but seriously, it is absurd.

On top of all those buffs, you get like three bosses coming at you at once AND they get healed so you’re basically not doing any damage to 'em.
Bloody bonkers, and it sucks the enjoyment out of the game when it’s like that.

In addition, if someone crashes out or they quit out, you’re left with a bot. Nobody can join in progress. It doesn’t make sense at all to do that. It should be just like a regular game where players who are eligible for havoc can just select a game or press quickplay and join in.
The bots that players get stuck with seem as if they’ve come from a production line with a big sign above it “Rated U for Useless”.

Getting stuck with a bot on lv 5 Auric Maelstrom is bad enough and you’d might aswell just pack it in, let alone a Havoc game.

EDIT - I retract this point here - “can you add a feature where you’re able to display the difficulty level of your Havoc game to players who search, and to specify in a search which difficulty range you’re looking for.”

Didn’t see that until now haha :face_with_tongue:

The two main adjustments I’d truly appreciate though is for the difficulty and joining in progress, please. There’s other better ways to make a level more difficult without ruining the enjoyment, such as no ammo pick ups whilst having only melee enemies in the level - some of the older Auric missions had that arrangement a short while back and I genuinely enjoyed those. Makes you really think carefully when to use your ranged weapon, instead of just using it whenever you feel like it.
Just keeps it more interesting and at the same time you have to think tactically.

EDIT 2 - After a bit of a shoddy sleep I was thinking a little this morning, when it comes to PC games like Darktide, I have a handicap. I’ll explain…
For quite a while I’ve not had the space and arrangement to use a keyboard and mouse comfortably, therefore I use a ps4 controller.

I’d appreciate the Fatshark devs shedding some honest light on this - the console version of Darktide, and havoc mode is likely significantly less difficult than the PC version, main reason being that, no matter how good a player you are with a controller, you will NEVER be as quick and as good as a player who uses a keyboard and mouse. It’s just fact, that PC players dominate console players when it comes to accuracy and speed in first person shooters.

I’ve been watching a YouTube user named ChocoB and it is bloody incredible and almost unreal how fast and accurate they aim and shoot the enemies they target.

That leads me onto a third little tweak which would be wicked if the Fatshark devs implemented. A way to have the game adjust the difficulty slightly if it detects that one or more players are using a controller. I don’t know how difficult it would be to do that, but maybe it reads your game settings when you start up and play the game.

I can almost predict someone saying to me for once “Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other and see which one fills up faster” :sweat_smile: :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

I hope they never nerf havoc

13 Likes

Disclaimer: This is not to say you’re wrong or to negate your experience.

I think the difficulty is fine. I don’t think everyone should complete the highest settings in a game, all the time. It’s like gear, or leveling a character. It’s something you work towards.

I don’t think anyone would consider it a good idea that 60% of the players were Global Elite in Counter-Strike (rank has changed now), or Challenger in League of Legends, or do the highest Mythic+ dungeons or raids in World of Warcraft.

I believe the game should be opened for everyone, all difficulties etc, if they put in the time. As in, you shouldn’t have to be a Fortnite pro streamer who has a bit of the 'tism, in order to be able to play the highest aspects of the game. (Controversial! :scream:)

I play a few mid-level Havocs every now and again, and I do notice that players are playing as if it was Auric. They leave Disablers roaming, they tunnel vision a Boss/Monster, they don’t fight together, they ignore packs of elites eating someone up, etc etc.

So, when I want to succeed in lower difficulties (because in higher difficulties, the majority of players I’ve played with, handle themselves just fine), I use voice and pings to order them around (nicely). Doing that, makes me succeed far more than not. I’m not a great solo player, but I am a decent teamplayer.

TL;DR Havoc is less forgiving, and I think that’s fine. I think it gives the higher end of the players something to fight against. It can’t all be Mortis Trials level of difficulty (buffed in 2 days! :heart_eyes:).

You when you read my comment:
opinion

2 Likes

“and I do notice that players are playing as if it was Auric. They leave Disablers roaming, they tunnel vision a Boss/Monster, they don’t fight together, they ignore packs of elites eating someone up”

I’ve noticed that quite often. But the main problem being that they’re usually higher level than me so they shouldn’t be doing it… I don’t class myself as a great player (I use a ps4 controller FFS) but I can handle myself alright in most situations, even alone. But like you, I feel that I’m better working with a competent team.

P.s. Funny pic from a great film.

2 Likes

Masochist! :laughing: :squinting_face_with_tongue:

1 Like

Stop believing higher level = particularly good. It’s the real first step on the road to disappointment.

1 Like

The difficulty level of Havok in my games comes down to whether there will be broken spawns or not, and even if they break, you can pass. But have I ever had situations in matches when you have twins, a captain (with a medic buff), a horde and 2 full-fledged bosses, and you just physically can’t kill all of this? I guess it seemed to me. Weaken Havok? No. I would like the developers to try to reach level 40 on streams step by step and show how it should be - damn right. The only difference is that I play in a random, it’s more fun for me. And they would be in 4 friends, a small bonus so to speak, and without the help of testers)

1 Like

Havoc difficulty itself feels alright. Sometimes you get really bad moments like twins on top of mixed horde/bosses, sometimes you make it against all odds.
What really makes Havoc “bad” that you have to play same stuff over and over again like missions, modifications, builds (fire staff, bubble, shout, taunt etc.). It gets tiresome if you play more than 2-3 games a day. Of course, you can reinvent the wheel and play so-called meme builds but you won’t get a party group or just grief your other teammates that rely on your class skills.
More maps, more enemies and modifications, better diversity should make it much more enjoyable.

Usually this happends if you don’t play “meta” stuff. You will see lack of damage, movement, crowd control really soon. Havoc teaches you a lesson if your build is lacking.

I don’t mind difficulty. That said, I don’t like difficulty in the form of nerfing stats like health and toughness. It leads to silly situations like shooters instantly killing people.

1 Like

Yeah, that’s the point.

This is because of the selfish nature of some of the PUG players.

You and me both, what makes it worse is if you get downed, they just leave you there.

Fatshark is just terribly mediocre at designing game modes and balancing in general.

… but we’ll get there eventually. …

… slow and steady…

1 Like

Imagine the crying and the “WO is me” threads if they rushed and in completed work.

As a Fatshark game’s fan you have to eventaully accept the fact that you are a mere beta tester xD

i mean I have yet to think of one game system, class, game mode, difficulty setting, itemization system they have not yet “reworked” or “overhauled” eventaully

… then they summon their marketing people and claim it to be “free updates”, “content addition” as well as “live service” instead of just fixing what has been flawed for long time xD

life is hard on Atoma Prime

2 Likes

That belief has already desisted :sweat_smile:

That’s not a very nice way of looking at it… bloody beta testers :laughing:

“life is hard on Atoma Prime”
Oh, we have no idea. Even the most adept long term Warhammer fans would likely tell you that there are rabbit holes as long as Galazxies themselves which are brimming full of tragedy and bleak horrors :hushed_face:

I’d like to see that too, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that would happen because the developers probably can’t even beat higher level havocs it’s so bonkers :sweat_smile: :rofl:

Would be genuinely interesting to see how they go about it, tactics, exploits etc

I disagree. I get bored quite easily, but the arrangement of the levels, the game mechanics like prioritising enemies, team play(when you get a good team), sound design, level design, the overall feel and atmosphere of each level, and especially the music, it’s all very engaging and mentally stimulating. It reminds me of the Left 4 Dead games, and those are awesome too.

Darktide only needs little bits of work here and there. It’s already special to many, including myself :slightly_smiling_face: :blush:
Just, not havoc in its current state :upside_down_face: :sweat_smile:

1 Like

Sounds like havoc is not for you then. It is what it is.
I was the same at the beginning but then after a couple of H40 runs Auric felt like sleepwalking, and I don’t even consider myself a hardcore player or anything, I have a mere 700+ hours in the game.
The only thing I’d change in Havoc is the ammo nerfs, at least for Veteran (so he gets more ammo from pickups) so other weapons like autoguns become viable.

1 Like

In its current state, it does indeed mean that. It is what it is, a mess. Ammo nerfs are the least of the problem :sweat_smile:

“but then after a couple of H40 runs”

Just curious here, were the four of you using exploits of some kind to get through the level, similar to what speed runners do?
Seems to me that’s the only way to do it. Use glitches like little cheats. Ridiculous. Another example to my rant is that I just played a level 20 havoc on a Dark Communion level.
Buffs were Ventilation Purge, Sniper Gauntlet, the Orange spreading thing, raging enemies, and that condition when a Demon host is being charged up / summoned.

Got about half way in, doing well, then one of the Demon host started charging and quicker than usual, so we all start pushing quickly towards it, but then all of a sudden three bosses - a non weakened Plague Ogryn and two bosses who charge at you with their little bubble shields come at us together.

Now, how the absolute f*ck is that doable… I don’t care how skilled you are, you could have four proper hardcore excellent players fighting against all that and they’d still get their arses handed to them. Once that Demon host entered into it, it was game over.

It’s the utter shite which needs fixing. And until it is, I won’t be playing it. That, or I learn those exploits like other players have no doubt used. Either way, no one should have to resort to using glitches etc to do a level :roll_eyes: