Both.
I was born in smoke, molded by it. I haven’t had a gunner target me until I was a man!
On a more serious note, I’m not sure if I love it more for seeing the enemies running around confused inside it, or because my ranged teammates get so confused about how/where to shoot or where to stand when I use them. Things like Trappers running inside, suddenly stopping and looking at me before I chop it’s head off still makes me smile even after hundreds of games with it.
Hel, you can lazily recolor the taunt effect and call it a day.
Even a 1s (0.5?) flash on mobs and effect duration would probably enough to prepare and adjust.
I may just whip up a quick mod to display a message…
20% is too high in my grim scrip book.
Maybe my patience is worn out as of late, but if I can reduce that % you bet your extra rashuns I’m doing it.
I wish I had a way to show how I use Bolt Pistol effectively, and the person i referred to is, yes, a content creator.
There are elements of the Bolt Pistol I wish were improved such as a Penetration 1 value to where the “Explosive” effect occurs after “Penetration” occurs rather than detonation upon surface impact.
To further detail: If I had a way to show how I have taken down Crushers in a couple of shots, or moments specials were one-shotted, or even where multiple horde trash exploded upon a shot from mid-range prior to my charge in with melee-- I’d love to show it.
Most of the time I am so hyper focused on the gameplay I forget to set up anything to show a recording. If anything, I do see where FS eventually either makes something buffed or nerfed, maybe the feedback regarding BP can give a tad of an uptick for it.
The soft meta is seen in ways of the oddball manner of Combat Knife (we know is deemed a top meta), yet I can run a Chainsword or Heavy Eviscerator in the best manner to use them and get results as well-- I wish for the best anyone can enjoy of Darktide, aside from Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries and all DLCs I own of that game (and Cyberpunk 2077), Darktide has captivated me in gameplay so much as I have so much fanatic interest in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Its amazing to see where a tabletop game has inspired so many video game franchise iterations, up to where (imo) Dawn Of War (1&2), Space Marine (and its upcoming sequel), and Darktide are the best of their styles to have come out. We will see how good it gets in Darktide (potentially better fingers crossed) after the next DLC Patch. Theres something that keeps us playing DT afterall even amongst deemed flaws
I admit stealth mechanics in the Tide franchise don’t have the greatest history. It just doesn’t feel like it’s an ability type that ought to be inherently anti team. The other 3 players taking a bit more heat for a while as a trade to allow one party member to act unhindered really feels like something that ought not to be hard for a team to leverage to their collective advantage.
I’ll try to avoid going on a long soapbox rant here but if feels like the underlying issue is it being pretty rare for players to attempt to seriously communicate or coordinate with their team, or heck even be cognisant of their team in the first place. My personal hot take here is that making the player characters too individually competent removes the core incentive that forces players to actually play cooperatively. I strongly remember the times when VT2 was at its relatively most difficult were by far the majority of times I saw PUGs actually attempt to communicate and co-ordinate.
I think this is pretty core too:
So I guess my follow up would be. Ok I accept that you run into stealth enabling especially bad/toxic gameplay often enough to be an issue. What would be your idea on how to best rectify stealth? Assuming obviously that simply replacing those abilities or ground up reworking them aren’t realistic options?
Beyond this that is, and reducing uptime, assuming those wouldn’t be enough to make it palatable to you on their own.
Plasma for a long time was fine. It was my favorite ranged weapon. It took some thinking and build crafting to use correctly. Than FS turned it into the disgusting abomination it is today. They absolutely ruined it.
For Zarona and Plasma Gun a large part of the discussion isn’t damage it’s cleave. Which is part of the reason other precision weapons have such trouble competing with them. So yes cleave on them needs to be massively reduced, and cleave on some other precision weapkns should be increased (1 cleave on B pistol please 
)
Imo FS already screwed this up with the theming of the game but that’s a different conversation.
A weapons function and design should be based on lore and it’s balance should be based on gameplay. This isn’t a simulator, it is a game.
Again, this is not the issue. It’s the get out of jail free stealth+knife that attracts/encourages selfish behavior, dealing with whatever you had +whatever knifey mcstealther decides to poke/dot in addition. Stab-poke move on to next area, aggro crap, realize you pissed off too much then nope out of there, or just nope out when you could have easily held ground and killed/helped. I’m still unsure if the chicken or egg came first here.
Yeah, much more so than in VT2, and there are mechanics and items that don’t punish the “main characters”, it rewards them instead. VT2 had a much, MUCH more co-operative player base, likely due in part to the more niche appeal, maybe platform segregation and “individually competent” not being at DT levels as you said; they all likely played a part.
It would prolly be enough, the whole invocation nerf just made knife more appealing to many. A de-taunt ability for a melee frontline powerhouse still seems like an odd pick and I doubt FS will backtrack, but yeah a 1s confusion with a taunt-like indicator would smooth out some edges. I would have added a different audio grunt/roar could help but audio seems overloaded as is these days.
You’re absolutely right. The ongoing trend of nerfing weapons to appease a vocal minority of hardcore players is detrimental to the health and longevity of PVE games. Helldivers is a prime example of how excessive nerfs can drain the fun out of a game, leading to a mass exodus of players. When developers prioritize balancing for a small group of hardcore players over the enjoyment of the broader player base, it often results in a game that feels more like a chore than entertainment. This obsession with “balance” at the expense of fun is what leads to the downfall of games like Darktide, where the focus shifts from creating a satisfying experience to catering to the demands of those who think every challenge should be insurmountable. The reality is, a game that is fun and accessible is far more likely to thrive than one that punishes the majority to appease a few.
It’s easy to point fingers and blame certain weapons or abilities like plasma or smite for “ruining” the game, but the truth is that these tools are often what make the game enjoyable for many players. Just because something feels powerful doesn’t mean it should be nerfed into oblivion. Balance isn’t about making everything equally difficult; it’s about ensuring the game is fun and rewarding for everyone. The comparison to Arrowhead might be laughable to some, but it underscores a critical point: if a game loses sight of what makes it fun in an attempt to perfectly balance every aspect, it risks losing its soul. Balancing isn’t just about making things harder, it’s about maintaining the core enjoyment of the game, which is something that seems to be getting lost in this relentless pursuit of nerfs. Instead of nerfing everything that feels strong, developers should focus on creating a game that challenges players without stripping away the joy of playing it.
I think people just hear the word nerf and assumes the worst, in their world small alterations are never on the table and it is always a total weapon nerf that is happening. Small alterations need to happen so that they room for other weapons to function or at least make it so that are clear reasons as to why you can use weapon A over weapon B.
You do know that alot of player feedback has resulted in buffs for weapons aswell?
Only obsession with balance? and nothing else that could’ve impacted peoples view about this game negatively comes to mind?
None of the existing weapons are so powerful as to radically alter the game or force people to use them, and as long as that’s the case I really don’t see a need to nerf anything. If Zealot was absolutely a completely different level of utility with a Knife, or if finding a non-Plasma Veteran was a unique event, I’d say go ahead and address them, but that’s just not the case.
I have some problems with the design concepts of some weapons (particularly revolvers and knives), but there’s really nothing I feel that’s so powerful it distorts gameplay radically.
As I noted earlier in the thread, the last thing I felt needed a real nerf was the original incarnation of Assail (which is still my go-to Psyker ability), where once a Psyker hit level 7 they could basically just forget guns and staves existed and absolutely trivialize lower difficulty content while still effectively spamming the ability at higher difficulty levels, and finding a Psyker who wasn’t running Assail was nigh impossible for a few weeks. With the recharge reduction, it can’t be spammed in the same way to completely replace a stave, and became a tool for dealing with pressure packs or clearing an entryway instead of a complete weapon replacement, and things evened out.
I don’t see the Columnus or Zarona or anything else these days having the same sort of impact as the original Assail did.
What I get from all the mumbo-jumbo of paragraphs is just ‘OP weapons are fun and I don’t want it to be taken away’ tbh
Which is understandable because some people play the game just for the power fantasy, but we’re playing coop game here and your power fantasy is also impacting other player’s experience.
I don’t want an entire match to be turn into meat grinder just because a Smite Psyker join the game or having all the elites/specials get snatch by Plasma Vet before I could get a hit in.
Also It’s not like there’s an option to turn the game into power fantasy already.
Git gud? Getting even half the specials/elites on one person usually means there are people on the team that are either not pulling there weight or just aren’t good at dealing with said enemies. There is not even enough ammo on the map to do so much elite/special killing with plasma, lmao.
Not everything is about how it trivialize the game, sometimes the weapon in question is good enough that it is displacing other weapons designed for certain niches that the weapon in question should not be in.
Why would I ever use a headhunter when I can just use Columnus mk V and still get all the strengths from its niche while still being good or decent enough in others that the first weapon was never even considered in the first place.
? What is there to be git gud about? Are you implying I have to race with my teammate to kill stuff before they can if I want to have fun?
Also not enough ammo on plasma? lol.
but whatever, hug your plasma tight soldier.
To my game experience, the only time this is happening, that isn’t really possible with other weapons, is when they’re all globbed up together and are particularly well armored such that a lighter automatic weapon can’t just magdump them all. Vet’s don’t need PG’s to snatch all the the Elites/Specials if that’s what they’re focusing on.
The PG deals with “clumps” and conga-lines very well, but if the enemies are dispersed at all or their arrival is staggered, it’s not particularly more effective than anything else.
Personally I’d argue that’s more an issue with the Headhunters in general in this case because I have a hard time where I’d see using them over many other options, though admittedly that may also just be my playstyle bias. I’ve always had a hard time figuring out their use/purpose.
I think much of the problem is that Darktide has too many weapons, crowding the design space and making balanced differentiation difficult. We’ve got 18 different weapons patterns between basic Las and Auto Guns, weapons that would all have the exact same stats in tabletop 40k (S3 R24" AP- Rapid Fire D1).
Look man, if you can’t kill specials or elites because there is plasma on the team then there is something wrong with you.
Again even 50% of special/elite damage on one person is very, very rare, and means there are support focused or bad players on the team usually, or one spot on the team is always rotating leavers.
Ooh, so I’m just not gaming hard enough so our homie Plasma vet have to do all the work. Man, I’m such a bad teammate.
Yes, the underlying cause for this is most likely the crafting system. But having weapon groups that are close enough to one another and then have each individual group have up to three marks make for a lot of weapon bloat and alot of overlap in weapon functionality
More coming from a weapon view point. The game in general is more suited for weapons that can handle the fast pace and enemy spawn rates.
To just add to this, since melee is currently incredibly effective ranged weapon that can quickly dispatch disabler are also very much preferred. Ranged weapons that would be good against shooters/gunners (or hordes) are just not required and/or lag behind in efficiency compared to melee.
it’s true they are the toxic element dragging pve games down they get good at the game get bored and demand that the devs pull the ladder out behind them by nerfing player power and buffing enemy units removing the hoard shooter from the hoard shooter which then becomes a running sim, I’ve seen the clutch videos its person recording running away all the time.
playing a video game is like anything you do enough times it can start of difficult then you get good at it with enough practice and eventually it becomes easy.
with this game high intensity has no reason to exist in normal mode but it shows up. I’m a new player and I can tell which weapons have been nerfed into the ground without looking them up because they feel like the lore disrespecting trash, they are in the game like the bolt guns, flamer, thunder hammers and even the power swords that short out after one swing. what do I see in the Space marine trailer it stays active while in use or for a set duration can’t tell screen time isn’t long enough.
then on top of that they have books in the game that do nothing but put players at a disadvantage especially to when its a grims map the risk does not justify the rewards we are given.
