Grenade Overhaul

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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While i don’t like such approach for nades like in DT, it makes a perfect sense why it so. Nades have a big aoe and even some effect duration like fire, bleed and smoke, so there is a window when you are vulnerable and can be punished by the game for making bad decision, it’s just an impact/risk ratio.

Remember that it’s not a pvp game, and mobs can’t react like a pro apex/cod player.

For the overhaul you are asking for there should be some another penalty then. Like fast throw must be talent/blessing that is universal for every class.

It’s pure skill issue in every game when people die with full pockets of consumables, they just can’t remember to push keybuttons.

Bolter pull out time is the only thing that prevents bolter being OP again.

Nah, bad take. You are saying about pressing 2 keys for 1 action - dodge, while with nades it’s 1 button per every action - 1 to pull it out, 1 to throw

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“so there is a window when you are vulnerable and can be punished by the game for making bad decision”
I’ll repeat myself once more: YOU STILL WILL GET PUNISHED FOR MAKING A BAD DECISION WITH THROWING GRENADE. You still have same long animation of character pulling out grenade, pulling the pin and throwing it. As i showed on screenshots.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS YOU NEED TO PRESS 1 BUTTON TO DO SO, INSTEAD OF 2.

“Bolter pull out time is the only thing that prevents bolter being OP again.”
No, the high damage of other weapons, that does not have long pull out time, is what prevents bolter to be OP again. I will repeat myself once again: THERE WAS A PATCH WHEN BOLTER DMG GOT BUFFED AND PEOPLE USED IT REGARDLESS OF LONG PULL OUT TIME. Because it’s dmg was worth the long pull out time. Now it’s dmg not worth it’s pull out time and you can barely see bolter in games.

“Nah, bad take. You are saying about pressing 2 keys for 1 action - dodge, while with nades it’s 1 button per every action - 1 to pull it out, 1 to throw”
That exactly what the problem is. There is no benefit in having 1 action to pull it out. You pressing 2 buttons, to achieve 1 action.

You see, if action to pull out grenade had some benefits to it - then it’s completely fine. But it doesnt have any benefits. You pull out your grenade in order to throw it, not to look at it. I’ll repeat myself once more: with melee and ranged weapons you have reason to swap to them. They have different uses and different actions. With grenade you have only 1 action: throw it.

And everybody knows, that pulling out grenade has no benefits. And they still defend this useless action as “it makes game harder”.
Which is funny, because grenade itself has “quick throw” on clicking LMB and “aimed throw” on holding LMB. Both of which performing the same action, with the same animation, with the same trajectory arc. But why have a “quick throw”? Let’s remove it and let it be only “aimed throw”. I mean you must plan when to use your grenade and face the consequences of your actions.

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But it has, currently you can pull out nade and swap back to weapon in case you changed your mind/need to defend yourself. Or you can take some time for aim to stun some sniper/bomber (especially when i play flamer zealot) that sits somwhere far away behind the fence or to create some area denial zone.

With your overhaul you can find yourself being stuck in a long animation when you maybe don’t want to. Having 2 buttons for 2 actions is a compromised version where you have both - room to being punished by the game and to change your decision/swap to block.

How does it make sense? You can have several OP weapons that don’t compete with each other. Bolter is completely fine and fair weapon currently. Plasma, despite being my favorite gun is braindead to use.

Yeah, it’s the current patch. I play with bolter on maelstrom quite often, maybe most of the time on my vet even.

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underthrow or overhand, grenades have a shorter fuse if you don’t spend time aiming them to account for what they assume is a longer distance throw. if you just tap it instead of holding the button to throw the time’s shorter.

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First of all you think i somehow change how grenade works. That’s incorrect. I did not proposed any changes to how grenades operate. Only how a button for using grenades will operate and how it would look like. I suggested changes for how some psyker blitz would operate and nobody talks about those. Everyone are fixed on grenade, somehow thinking that i suggest “press g and grenade will instantly fly out without any animation like it’s some sort of Call of Duty modern warfare”

Currently you press G to swap to a grenade. Then press LMB to throw grenade or hold LMB to aim grenade.

I suggest press G to throw grenade or hold G to aim grenade. You can cancel the grenade by clicking RMB just like you can cancel grenade currently in the game.

It’s funny to see how people were telling me “the long time to use grenade is something you need to work aroun” and now you say, that in my method the long time to use grenade is harmful since you can change your mind/defend yourself.

With my overhaul you do everything exactly the same and currently in the game. BUT. Without need to press extra button to swap to a grenade. Imagine if you could press stim button and inject stim, instead of swapping to a stim and then injecting the stim.
At least with stims you can inject it in teammate or give it to teammate… which nobody does anyway, but eh, there is possibility to do so.
WIth grenades you only throw grenade. Not give grenade to your teammate. Not change the way grenade will work. There is no justification for swapping to a grenade as separate action. It’s just the way developers implemented grenades in their UNFINISHED game.

OP weapons compete in each other’s category. Between all 6 autoguns (braced and infantry) columnus infantry is OP. It has better stats, better dmg, it’s stronger than other autoguns.
Between all horde clearing melee veteran has - powersword is OP. nothing compares with it in terms of damage. You can even oneshot combo a crusher with it.

In category of “armored elite killers” there are bolter and plasmagun. And plasmagun is better than bolter in every single way. There is no point of taking bolter over plasmagun. With how much cleave it has, and dmg, and ammo capacity and ability to cancel reload animation and ability to insta drop 20% of overheat. it’s braindead to use because it’s so much better.

And no, that was before patch 13 where bolter had big dmg buff and everybody was using it. Untill fatshark nerfed it. Maybe bolter recieved some buffs this patch, but plasmagun has way more buffs.
Plus my graia infantry autogun kills crusher faster, than bolter and it has faster reload, faster pulling out time, more accuracy and can be used entire game against any enemy. Why should i pick bolter over my autogun.

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But it’s clunky, i don’t wanna hold grenade button to aim, my key binding doesn’t fit that style. And i don’t wanna be punished by extra long pull+toss merged animation, as you said here

It just will bring less control over your actions

It doesn’t matter in terms of being OP, cause if some weapon (A) is OP then it’s trivilizing game, it’s just there is another weapon (B) that trivilizng game even more, it doesn’t change that fact weapon A is still broken.

Not everyone is a minmaxer meta player. I don’t like braindead weapons without no risk involved, sometimes there can be a coincidence when i like some wepaon for aesteics and it’s overtuned, like plasma. Back in the days i’ve never used bolter (like 3 runs maybe) cause it was boring spray to win.

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sorry mate. I still cannot wrap my head around your point on grenades.

You dont wanna be punished by extra long pull+toss merged animation. But you do wanna be punished by extra long swap + pull + toss animations.

If you think you wont be able to cancel animation or swap to weapon - you will be able to do so. At any time of holding G, or during animation after pressing G - you can click RMB and it will cancel animation and you have your gun in hands, ready to shoot. Or melee.

And it’s even better than cancelling throw grenade animations, that currently in the game, by pressing “quick weapon swap” button. Because if you had ranged in your hands, swapped to grenade, changed your mind and pressed quick weapon swap button - you will be swapped to melee weapon, not the ranged you had in hands before swapping to grenade.
See how complexity and stupidity of current “grenade swap” mechanic is not working with existing “quick weapon swap” mechanic.

I think i give up at this point. People either do not understand my words. Or just dont want to read them. Not matter how many times i explain

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Or… hear me out… they disagree.

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That’s the problem, holding button just to not release nade is bad in this game, it fits session pvp shooters, cause you pre-nade spots where people always come/spawn from, cause you will die and respawn with more nades anyway during this session, especially in a high octane modern shooters with low ttk.

What you suggest is more reaction-based nades, while current idea is about more tactical approach, nade is a meaningfull tool in DT. You may not like such design, but it makes a perfect sense and DT isn’t the only game with such approach for nades.

For a panic button there are already some ultimates.

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i wish they’d disagree with me man… but they disagree with a points, they themselves made up, that has nothing to do with what i suggest.

You can see it in the thread. Not a single person talked about psyker’s blitz. Which is funny, because i did changed the way psyker blitz works. But i havent changed the way grenades work…

You know how psykers cannot quell peril with ranged weapon, because R button just reloads weapon. And i come out and suggest “Hey, would be cool, if by holding R with your ranged weapon on psyker - you could quell peril”. And then people will lash out and say “skill issue, swap to your melee or blitz and hold R to quell. It’s a tactical decision and you must plan around it”.
That’s pretty much the situation i find myself in.

I do understand, that it’s my fault for not being able to express my ideas clearly. English is not my first language. And the more i’m trying to explain - the more confusion it creates. So i will leave it here as it is x)

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I know how you feel. I think there is also the potential to become too attached to ideas and arguments and we feel we’re being personally attacked more than we are and feel the need to defend our way of thinking.

Genuinely tho, I think many people here do just disagree because they like the system as it is and the negatives that come with it.
I am one of those, I like the current way the grenades work, but I am used to it from previous Tide games.

Also, just as a potential solution to think about, you could get a mouse or keyboard that uses macros. Its not perfect but it would work.

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