Visit the meatgrinder and find out.
It would take you about as lonbg as it took you to write this comment.
Correction: you need one hand to hold the grenade with lever and ONE FINGER to pull the pin. It doesnt need to be a finger even, can be anything hook-liked, stiff enough to pull the pin.
There are plenty of action-shooter games where you throw the grenade WHILE holding your gun.
If you wanna continue with the root of realism - ok. You know that your weapon is supposed to be strapped, right? So if you release your gun - it hangs by the straps on your belly/chest. In darktide, however, you completly remove your gun (like putting it on the back) to take out the grenade.
For melee weapon that makes sense, a gun hanging on your chest will interfere with your ability to swing melee weapon. So itâs ok to put your gun on the back to use melee.
For grenade that doesnt make any sense. Not with melee, not with ranged weapon.
And we havent even talked about psykers. That for some reason put their staff (that supposed to improve their psyker abilities) on the back to use hands for blitz abilities.
So how i envision this: you press G, your character lowers the gun while holding it with right hand, takes grenade with left hand (this action is not seen from 1st perspective as itâs done below our camera), you hear âclink!â of your character pulling the pin with finger of right hand. And then you see the regular throwing animation.
Once again, iâm not against seeing throwing animation of grenade. Iâm against pressing unnecessary button for it to do so. As not only itâs extra action that has no benefits, but also it results in problems with weapon swapping this game already has.
Edit:
i did couple of screenshots and this is something like it would look like. Pardon my lack of photoshop skills.
This is the animation for pressing the G. It pulls the grenade and throws it.
this is the animation for holding the G. It pulls the grenade and allows you to aim where to throw
iâm talking about whether or not it will be better to throw on release, or on LMB click in that version of overhaul for grenades i suggested. Not about what already in the game, mate
Sort of. They do in that they land quicker. Itâs a weird difference.
the main grenade-linked idea ive had is that when youre using a pistol weapon and/or one handed melee you should at least switch to grenade much faster cause youve got a free hand
Skill issue. Didnât read the rest. Grenades are perfectly fine. Do not turn the game into Call of Duty. If youâre swamped with enemies, that is an intended disadvantage that limits what you can do. Darktide isnât a solo game. Your team mates will hopefully see you be swamped and assist - potentially by throwing a grenade towards you - if they can.
Sick and tired of people complaining they canât be more self sufficient in Darktide. Go play something else.
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lol. Exactly because you didnt read - you missed the whole point.
i guess itâs âintelligence issueâ in your case
Exactly what?
I skimmed through your post until I saw that you suggest a method for throwing grenades without having to switch to them and pull the pin. My hypothesis is confirmed, I will cease skimming through your post now and stand by what I said earlier in my first comment. Darktide is not, will not, and should never be anything like Call of Duty.
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as i said - intelligence issue. Not only i explained how it will work and that you will pin the pin. But also added pictures of how it should work.
Yes, iâm against switching to grenades. As it gives you no benefits. And itâs just unnecessary action.
Iâm not against animations of pulling the pin. And i showed how it can be done with weapon in hand.
You saying this game should never be like Call Of Duty. But there are trinkets hanging out of your weapon. Thatâs like as Call of Duty as it can be. Inspecting the weapon. Changing skins and camo for your weapon. Feels like Call of Duty to me, my friend.
I remember Fatshark responding to question why no weapon customization that âthey dont want this game to be Call of Dutyâ. Despite Fatshark themselves promising that we will be able to customize our guns.
Not only itâs not for YOU to say what this game should and should not be. But also you not saying whatâs the benefits for a player to switch to grenade in order to throw it. And nobody said. Because there is no benefits to it. Only drawbacks. And if mechanic only offers drawbacks - thatâs a bad mechanic
There is balance in the grenades having such mechanics, they shouldnât simply be âget out of jail cardâ type of thing, your proposition is making it that.
Itâs the same issue with people asking for the Bolter to have no ready out time, it would certainly make the game faster, but it would not make it smarter, you would be able to use it at a momentâs notice, in melee without any issue and all.
If you do have issues with grenades, thatâs a skill issue, making them like you propose would just lower the skill bar and nothing else
I told thisto the person before. And i shall repeat it again. Balance in grenades is NOT in having a useless switching mechanic. But the limited amount of said grenades.
Grenades strong, thatâs their strength. Grenades limited, thatâs their weakness.
swapping to grenade as separate weapon brings no benefits. Tell me whatâs benefit of selecting grenade and then using them, compared to just using them.
Your Bolter argument is working against you, mate. People are NOT using the Bolter, exactly because itâs too long to pull out. Only swapping to Bolter in dire situations. Just like grenades, people using them when find themselves in critical situation, not for PREVENTING said situations by killing enemies with it beforehand.
Bolter dmg was buffed in one of the patches and you know what? People started using them. Because benefits of using bolter outweights the negatives of preparing time. But then bolter was nerfed again and you barely see it been used in games. Because other weapons deal enough dmg and dont require long prepare time.
Now to you point about lowering the skill bar. Have you tried to look at it from different perspective? Maybe selecting grenade as seperate actions is what artificially increases the difficulty of the game. And thatâs why removing such mechanics seems to you as lowering the difficulty.
Last thing. Go in Meat Grinder. Select ranged weapon. The swap to grenade. Then press Quick Weapon Swap button. You would assume game will swap you back to ranged weapon you hade before switching to grenade. But it swaps you to melee weapon. This is how having mechanic to swap to grenade instead of just using grenade is already messes up with already existing mechanic of quick swapping weapons.
There is no difference in time or skill required to use grenades. Itâs just you dont need unnecessary swapping weapon mechanic.
Itâs both.
To not being the solution of a panic button, and being something you have to think of before using. Same thing as they were in VT2.
Bolter is a tad weak, yes, but look at this thread, Reginald is someone that does know his stuff
He doesnât even want to make the ready speed faster.
Seeing as that mechanic stop people from freely use them while in a horde (like how Zealotâs knife work) yes I think putting your system would make them easier and thus lower the skill floor
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sorry mate. iâm not very good with quotes, so forgive me for not using those.
So i will be answering point by point and then, hopefully, presenting a valid example that you can test yourself in Meat Grinder.
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So we have 1 strength of greande with 2 weaknesses. Thatâs a bad game design. It must be balanced. So we can add another strength, improve current strength or remove 1 weakness. I suggest removing 1 weakness. Do you really think grenades that strong currently, to have 2 weaknesses to balance them out? No. People rather kill stuff with their weapons, than by using grenades. Veterans are exception, because they remove 1 weakness of grenades (itâs limited amount) with talents. But you dont see ogryns going around spamming their grenades, dont you?
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They already a panic button. Because using them requiers an extra, inconvinient, action of swapping your weapon. If we to remove this inconvinience - people will start using grenades more often, thinking about âis it worth to throw grenade in that pack of gunners or just shoot it with my gunâ rather than âiâll shoot them with my gun. Oh no, those gunners downed my teammate, i must use my grenade to save himâ. Just as i explained with Bolter gun
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Iâm not asking Bolter to be ready faster. His weakness is compensated by his strength of absolutely demolishing enire packs of elites. He needs dmg numbers tweaking, yes, but not removing itâs preparing time (which once again only veterans can mitigate with Executioners stance, but this ult is so weak compared to Voice of Command, so almost nobody using it).
We have similar problem with bolter and flamethrower. They supposed to have 1 strength of insane dmg compensated by 1 weakness of preparation time. But their strength is nerfed, so they dont have insnade dmg, but still have weakness of preparation time. Hence their popularity is low, compared to something like a plasmagun, which currently has no weakness and strength of insane dmg. -
Once again, iâm not asking to remove animations of throwing grenade. Iâm asking to remove one extra button to press. You can quickly press G and then LMB to throw grenade with current mechanic. I suggested mechanic where you need only to press G. It will take exactly same amount of time to use your grenade, but less buttons pressed. If you can achieve the same result for the same time, but pressing less buttons - thatâs a good game design. Thatâs convenient.
pressing extra button is not skill. Itâs unconvience
Now for example. Go into Meat Grinder, pick Ogryn with rock. And throw 2 of them. You will see how you must press G to swap to rock, then press LMB to throw rock, then game automatically swaps you to your weapon, then you must again press G, and press LMB. Yes in mission you can quickly throw 2 rocks to kill 2 mutants. But why should you press and extra button twice to do so? Why these extra steps, that give you nothin, but extra steps for the sake of extra steps.
Not to mention who the frag cares about skill floor in PvE games. You still have absolutely incompetent players in Auric missions, that cannot do anything and float aroun 50 total score per match. Iâve played a lot of games in Auric damnations. I see players not picking up grenades and not using them. Wasting potential DPS simply because they treat grenades only as a ârevive teammateâ button. And they treat it like that, partially, because of the weapon swapping. Itâs unnecessary action, that players must make in order to achieve a result.
Imagine if you reload and you have to press reload button again at certain point to have successfull reload, otherwise you drop your magazine and lose ammo. No benefits, unncessesary action, inconvenient mechanic. And you can say âwell, thatâs the skill issueâ.
But if you pressed reload button again at the right time - your magazine would deal +20% more dmg. Now thatâs a benefit. Benefit worth using such mechanic over the regular one âpress R and reloadâ. But swappin to grenade yields no benefit. Swapping to melee does. You can light attack, heavy attack, block, use special attack. Swapping to weapon also. You can click LMB to shoot, you can hold LMB to shoot faster, you can alternate fire, you can use special attack.
But swapping to grenades have no benefit. You can throw the grenade or you can aim the grenade. Thatâs it.
If you have ideas on improving capabilities of grenades with special action, clicking/holding LMB, clicking/holding RMB and etc - feel free to make those. Like priming grenade or switching between bigger AoE with less dmg or less AoE with bigger dmg and etc.
That will be adding strong sides to the grenades. And will make 2 strength and 2 weaknesses of a grenades, which is balance.
I just suggesting other way, of removing 1 weakness to balance it.
Edit: came up with better an easier example. Imagine if dodging in this game was made by pressing 2 buttons. Like, shift+spacebar. You can still dodge easily by pressing those 2 buttons, no question. Spacebar is just jump, shift is just sprint, dodging is spacebar+shift. Will you be ok with such mechanic. Or will it be more comfortable to dodge by just pressing spacebar?
Thatâs my suggestion, removing shift+spacebar to dodge and make it only spacebar. No any other difference.
also i want to add to âskill issueâ pro-master-gamers.
If a certain mechanic brings no benefits, with drawbacks. Itâs called a bad feature and is fixed.
For example a trapper, shooting net through solid fence, where he shouldnt be able to. You can say âha, skill issue, just dodge it from where you dont expect it to be shot fromâ. But developers acknowledged such problem and fixing it. So itâs not a skill issue, but rather a bad game mechanic.
Or flamethrowers/bombers removing all your toughness with single tick of fire. You can say âha, skill issue. Just dont get hit by fireâ. But developers acknowledged such problem and fixed it. So itâs not a skill issue, but rather a bad game mechanic.
Both of these mechanics âloweringâ the skill floor. Because they make game easier. Yet they were removed/going to be removed.
So before commenting âskill issue bruhâ - think about it a little bit more
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This is how I feel.
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indeed. You are supposed to plan around weaknesses, to recieve itâs benefits. You supposed to plan around flamethrower being slow to pull out and shoot with RMB, by throwing a stun grenade. Or with a bolter by using executioner stance. You plan around itâs weakness of long prep time to recieve itâs benefits of big damage.
You supposed to plan around weakness of limited grenades and long animation throwing. To recieve itâs benefits of aoe dmg and stagger.
But pressing extra button for that is not benefiting you in any way. Neither there is a benefit for such weakness. Its my bad for not clarifying the problem correctly.
As i stated above: game can have dodging on shift+spacebar. Itâs a weakness of pressing extra button to perform an action. You can plan around it and press 2 buttons every time you want to dodge. But pressing just 1 button, just spacebar, to dodge gives you the exact same result. You just dont need to press extra button.
You can press G, then LMB to throw grenade.
But you can also just press G and recieve the exact same result. You just dont need to press extra button.
Thatâs the problem with current blitz using mechanic. My post is about how blitz abilities will work with new blitz mechanic, that removes 1 extra button to press.
I really donât think it need to be changed. If that is changed then do you expect the medipack and the ammo back to be changed as such too ? The Stimm also ?
Like it work as is, and itâs good as is
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I remember long, long time ago⌠when someone was making that argument, I half-jokingly asked âSo if I donât predict right time to throw grenade and get swarmed, I deserve to die?â
Someone said âyesâ. So this is a story how Iâve learned not only psykers can predict immediate future (please do not report me to the Inquisitor I donât want to end up on the Black Ship).
It took some time to adapt though⌠also I can be a bit stubborn sometimesâŚ
(I will not retire powersword and bolter combo⌠EVER)
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