Jep, wish we had the more intimate Fighting. I loved Duelling Chaos Warriors.
I hated that Enemies came form all angles constantly though. Its better in DT.
Less Elites but more Souped up and intimidating. Of course you can 3 shot a Chaos Warrior with a 2H Hammer Bardin with the right Breakpoints on Charms and Weapons. Even 2 Shot on other Classes. But still, the looming feeling when they came was much more intense, same with Patrols. They were scary in the beginning, especially for new Players.
FS should definetly go back to that somehow. More Tide less Elite spam. More Enemy Types is also a double edged Sword since its already Chaotic and you have no clear Vision. There should be a finite numbers of Sepcials and Elites at any times. Like a cost system for Gamemaster in the background. You can have every special and Elite at once f.ex. but then you can have so little, since they have different cost (like Army Battle Cost in Tabletop).
In V2 you could read the Battle, in DT is very very hard and i dont mean teh Fire effect. That sucks hard, even blocking Tag and such
However to be fair, Weapons in the Future and Magic and Swords/ Bows and Magic in Warhammer Fantasy is just a big difference and hard to pull of. I rather have less Elites but with bigger HP Pools so we can Duel them again!
Vermintide is way harder to play than DT. Maybe just also very different in a way. I tried last Christmas, it was crazy hard not getting surrounded. To be fair, i was the only Player that was not a Noob but still.
playing darktide today i realized power creep has become so advanced that bruisers and groaners are now indistinguishable for all real world purposes. i donât remember the last time iâve seen 5 bruisers and treated them any differently from 5 groaners (or well i do but it was pre-talent trees)
Bruisers and m21 can still dodge catch you, but yes, majority of horde enemies in 99% of situations are nothing but a toughness battery, and at worse, block your movement or dodge when you need it most.
It makes me wonder, how many people actually enjoy this power creep?
I myself, am great fan of spawn numbers in current Auric and high havoc. The viceral waltz with untamed hordes of elites and specials. Every second you are just a second from your demise. And the bushits one can pull off.
I am on the exact opposite of the spectrum. To me the quiet moments is what allows the game to build up itâs atmosphere and greatly enhance the gameplay experience as you start o acticipate the moment where the horde comes and next intense engagement starts.
It was done masterfully in Vermintide 1 and 2 nad itâs what I really miss when I play Darktide. Itâs like, becasue the fighting stops and characters start talking you realize that these are people and not just puppets you control and ensue carnage with. They feel and fear death. Thatâs what shifts the players mindset and no longer is this a rollecoaster ride where you look at the enemies go splash but a game where you are on a suicide mission and pray youâll survive when you hear that horde screech and realize they are coming.
You feel like you are seeing a story unfold through eyes of people fighting other people, not just puppets easily killing enemies programmed to run at you and hit you with their clubs.
Ubersreik 5 were established to be heroes but because of these quiet moments I never thought to myself âEh, theyâre the main characters, theyâll survive everything.â Every engagement had me feeling that anyone can die. Itâs something I should feel even more in Darktide based on the narrative FatShark was pushing but it just didnât click because we are genuinly too strong.
I really wish I was here when Darktideâs Beta was released to the public. It felt like it had what exactly Iâm talking about here. Now Darktide is just fighting non-stop and when itâs intense at all times, the game stops being intense entirely.
TL;DR: What Ragnarok101 said but with even more intense hatred for the never ending fighting. If the game is intense 24/7 the gameplay just wonât feel intense at all.
I think there is a middleground to be had, should the game aim toward a the way Vermintide 1 does, no if they did decide on doing so I fear that it would kill the drive that many people get with the current tide games.
But I also think that the place that Vt2 is at is a much healthier place, and I wouldnât necessarily call it VerminElites.
Lowering the normal amounts of bodies would also give head space for engines struggles for example.
When you mention slower, more careful play and lasguns the game started out with it brings back the memories of the team being locked into cover firefights, like a scene out of star wars with lasers flying both ways. It was very boring if you couldnât participate, be it because youâre low on ammo or if you had an ineffective weapon for shootouts(shotgun, smg, flamer) or if you were playing ogryn(bigger than cover). I also didnât find it fun when I could participate. Staring at 3 crates, waiting for one of the three shooters hiding there to pop out feels out of place in a tide game. Eventually youâd see more and more players choose to rush into packs of gunners/shooters to lock them down into melee, making those fights faster, safer and in in my opinion more fun.
Think it was during the tutorial for Outrides, one of the things the game communicated is that in game cover is there for enemies to hide from you not for you to hide from the enemy. Iâd much rather like this be part of darktide than occasional cover shooter sections. These sections can still be seen in havoc these days, where rushing into gunners/shooters is very risky because of the damage they deal and the stuff that spawns when you move forward. Theyâre just as tedius as they were back in the day.
Toughness was introduced as ranged combat is not compatible with temporary health mechanic from VT2.
DT gameplay intensity has changed due to player complaints about not enough enemies to fight at the highest difficulties (back then Auric / maelstrom), multiple class reworks, and resulting player power creep.
Both games have valid approach to fun, VT2 is a bit more demanding in core mechanics, DT is more forigivng in core mechanics, but harder for other reasons, mainly ranged threats and number of enemies.
VT2 Deathwish and Onslaught mods, which increase the game difficulty were probably part of the inspirations behind DT Havoc experience.
I will agree with this. Iâm so tired of the game being constant with no real pauses for breath beyond the seconds before âhold the lineâ missions. Past the first couple difficulties you canât get the moments of character discussion at all and itâs a real shame because those are where your characters get to be characters.
Iâve been banging this drum before and Iâll bang it again, you need a way to force players to think about what theyâre doing rather than charging forwards into every cluster of enemies and strong ranged suppression and the ability to knock people out of a charge/sprint seemed to do the job. It also gave a niche to shotguns and SMGs even when they werenât damaging people - if keeping the enemyâs head down is valuable more people will do it.