yy, absolutely, it needs to be balanced from top down. I would guess something like that is obvious.
We would, because you can see all the issues in Cata very fast too. I kinda disregard high end weaves because that is just nonsense. When I talk about unbalanced mess I mean Cata which is normal endgame.
That sounds just like Twitch 2.0 which is amazing. It’s funny how they create something great kinda randomly and even fail to see it.
The twitch is fu*king amazing, yet they didn’t even fix bugs I reported right as it got released and it’s still not possible to “just activate twitch” via easy checkbox, you still have to check twitch and join some random online channel to get it going. This is so frickin absurd.
It would be so cool if they did that. And it’s not like nobody suggested this before, they just thought they know better than players.
When we got wind (see what I did there? ) of WoM, the development was already in a phase where it was impossible to change it to what everyone was expecting what it will be.
And I think that was the point when they realized that they f*cked up enormously. That the new expansion will be a huge letdown for the players, because they hyped something up and everyone was waiting for something entirely different from what they created. But since the point of no return was already way past, they had to double down on the weaves and make as much of it as they could. And they still have to go down this way until they can give us something we actually wanted, like the emporium and the deed rework.
At this point I’m very skeptic about the new deed system and am very afraid of what we’re going to get, since there will be no beta for it and it’ll be the way it’ll be…
@Palesz There will be a beta it’s called “Season 2”.
@flisker the Twitch 2.0 is a massive hit whenever I inflict it upon some poor randoms in QP. They all love it but can’t be bothered to even let me explain how to get it. They just add me on Steam and I have to host it a lot. Take out the positive effects and the grims and tomes don’t matter either - 15+dice is good enough XD
Twitch on a single button-click, with the Winds as another set of options and some minor tweaks to maps to allow players to run them backwards in QP, and WoM would’ve been a barnstorming success. Have a Donkey-Shaman using the warpstone meteor thing to open rifts to spew out the beastmen on those random maps with killing the Shaman guy the point of the Dark Omens map and you’ve got the whole thing wrapped up nicely. The Shaman guy could even have been the Beastman from the trailer.
I think the ten year plan has somehow been morphed into the “Let’s try and keep as many people in a job as we can, and try to keep Tencent off our back about their investment” 18 month plan.
I hope against hope that somewhere there’s a “Let’s not launch another monolithic pile of sh*t and test something… ANYTHING… properly before it launches” plan.
So that the development resources spent, are not thrown out of the window.
This is what they get from being disconnected from the player base, not running ideas with the crowd, believing they can do no wrong and people gobble up anything they make.
The reality is that no, they did NOT have to double down on weaves. It was too late to give up on them, perhaps, and too late to change the launch state of the expansion, but they had options that would have kept their customers.
Imagine Beta 1 comes around, it bombs as it did, and FS realizes they have a stinker on their hands. Instead of what they did in the real timeline, they could have come out and said:
“Whelp. We messed up. Sorry about that. We hear your feedback, unfortunately it’s too late to drastically change the expansion. In the month that’s left, we’re going to do the best we can by shifting our priority to making sure that Beastmen and the baseline game are as smooth and bug free as possible. Weaves obviously need a major rework, and we’ll get to that in future updates. In the meantime, we hope you enjoy the bug-free Beastmen.”
I would have been all over that. I would have seen the honesty and openess, the care for the community and the product, and bought the expac even in it’s flawed state just to support their development. Instead, they turtled up, refused to engage with the feedback, and lost most of their long term customers. Now, even if they do fix their problems, there will be no one left interested in buying their next product. Oops.
See, an online game like VT is not a product, it’s a service. It’s alive and constantly changing, and customer trust in the provider of that service is essential. Nobody is going to invest time and money into something that may screw the pooch at any time with no warning. Everybody says “games are a business, you gotta acknowledge that” but then I watch FS make Business 101 level mistakes and run themselves into the ground. At this point I’m just here to laugh as it all burns to the ground - admittedly I still have a secret dying hope that it’ll get better, I currently have no expectation that it will and I won’t be throwing money at a dying game.
Game is dying and grind is never going to fix it. Most people just want to play. Having to level up each character separately is a pain for every new player. People get gated because of an artificial power boost like hero power instead of skill. I had friends trying the game and I had to drop down to champion, killing everything with ease while they struggled. Only those who get hooked or are dedicated will grind through the game to finally get to the real game: Legend
And then the gear with horrible loot/crafting gets to them.
Grind in itself is not rewarding. There should be a reward after playing through a legend map or doing challenges, but you should be rewarded for skill, not for time put in.
As others said, the game is not dying, the game is being tortured and murdered. I can’t even bother to start up the game anymore. Just taking some time to go through my backlog, keeping an eye on this game to see if it gets to a state where it’s playable again.
FS is so misguided and internally conflicted that I honestly don’t have faith anymore. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they ever manage to get a non-broken, balanced game out.
In the meantime, we’ll get VS mode. Good luck with that.
I appear to be in the minority but I quite enjoyed leveling up the characters. I found the power growth complimented my growth in confidence with each character nicely. The pace felt good for me but obviously I can appreciate that won’t be the case for everyone so not a defence of leveling per se.
The crafting and loot system is definitely what I can’t abide, so overall very much agreed more grind is not the solution. More rewards/goals to work for? Sure, that’d be great. For me though what is killing the game is just stability. After 18+ months of playing the game somewhat consistently, keeping up with what is and isn’t currently broken is just exhausting by this point. A regularly changing meta can be fun and keep things fresh, but combine it with an ever fluctuating list of often pretty major bugs and it’s just too much inconsistency overall.
I’d honestly be pretty happy with the game right now if it was just a bit more smooth and I didn’t have to live in fear of every patch breaking as much as it fixes.
I mean, there’s that mythical season 2 that will fix everything. I’d say that sarcasm is about 50%. Either it does and it lets everybody know that if the game is in a sorry state come season 3 they can just check out until season 4. Or it does, and it lets everybody know that they can stop checking the forums for the illusive FS insight into their own game and fully move on.
Though given the lack of a beta, or at the very least, the lack of a public beta knowing how these things are going these days, I fully expect the game to shift seasons and upon launch set my computer on fire.
For certain characters, absolutely. For a few the talent selection is now still restrictive but now also crappy.
I don’t know but I just can’t see how ‘spend some real life money on a game hat’ is going to help or change what’s going on here. It just doesn’t matter, imo.
Most of the Emporium is paid for in shillings, which can be earned through gameplay basically (and a few free ones for owning DLC I believe they said). And then there are certain specific cosmetics that are bought for with real money. At least, that’s the takeaway I had from the post Hedge made a while back. Not sure if Shillings can be bought with real money as well, but I don’t remember FS saying that would be a thing though.
Ouch. Well, Bethesda-style: we made our game so unbearably boring that you can now pay and NOT play it. XD
Nice move. I was under the impression that the shillings was just a short(-er)cut way of getting the cosmetics, but oh well…
the devs were clear.
only cosmetics, nothing else.
some in game currency earned doing gameplay stuff, etc
some real life money
they were vague on is there a difference in what can be gotten with in game currency and real money or is it just different payment method for same thing.
but the greater point I made still stands. does some hat or cosmetic somehow change anything in a good or better way in terms of game survival or is it overall just mostly ‘meh’. if it does I’d love to hear that argument made and why
id say its just meh and won’t change anything much in terms of who’s playing, how much they play, or satisfaction with the game. but maybe I’m old school and I don’t care about hats or skins unless it impacts gameplay, don’t get those who do care, and think the greater evil of microtransactions getting its camel nose into the vermintide tent is a BAD thing.
so any hard data (new players, retaining players, luring old players back) on this, is again imo, not going to do squat to helping revive, save, or retain player numbers. in my cynical eyes it’s just going to extract some more cash from those left before they finally go too.
it would take a massive changes in-game to save this game and I don’t think the devs are prepared to do it, I’m not sure those who are left would accept it, and I’m not sure those who left or never came would change their minds and come or return if such a change were made.
This is completely subjective. For instance, what gotten me in the Warhammer universe in the first place (back in Elementary school) is design and artwork. Beautiful and intricate armors, shields, weapons, coats, heraldry, symbols, over the top trinkets all over the characters… For me as a kid back then it was just breathtaking… And it still is. I can spend hours browsing my Warhammer fantasy gallery admiring all the artwork that has been created over the years. Sometimes I get into Vermintide just so I can look at the characters from all angles and stare at their equipment and weapons.
So for me, unique and new cosmetics are really important and it always refreshes the game for me and make me play more. Again, I love Vermintide for what it is: Brutal, visceral first person hack and slash. Nobody does it better than Fat Shark when it comes to that.
But, I sure as hell want to see more cosmetics and I will be glad to pay for it ONLY IF THEY ARE TRULLY EPIC in design.
What’s epic for me you ask? Well, let’s say that if you are going to give Kruber a Knight of the Blazing sun armor, don’t just repaint the existing model for fučking sake. Make a completely new model that’s going to be badass. It’s not like there’s not enough inspiration around and we know that Fatshark has some talented people in the art department.
The shillings are a way to acquire the cosmetics you want instead of relying on RNGcrates, and no, shillings can not be bought with real money (unless you want to get technical and count the shillings included in the DLCs you pay for).
) of WoM, the development was already in a phase where it was impossible to change it to what everyone was expecting what it will be.
