FS: Don't charge for upcoming classes

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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This will also be posted to the DT Reddit. This will be a frank discussion, and may come off ranty at points.

FS: I know that bug fixing and optimization are the main priorities at the moment, and that’s good. The game needs it (still have friends who can’t even log into the game due to backend errors). But there are also going to be content drops as we have seen the new map arrive. This post is about any upcoming class/subclasses.

PLEASE do not charge for their release. The community as a whole has very mixed feelings about the game as it is (and is evidenced by the Steam reviews). FS has not given a firm answer on the issue of classes, which does not inspire confidence.

Darktide, while at its core is a great mechanical game, has an implementation and launch that has been lackluster, at best. The game definitely has the potential to be an amazing title, but it has some work to do. This is why charging for additional classes is a terrible idea. To elaborate:

The game is generally considered incomplete for its launch. It did not launch with all of its missions, had penances that were unable to be completed, suffered/s from bugs that prevent gameplay, force crashes, and hurt the game experience. We were also promised a great deal of customization, and that this would be the major difference between V2 characters and Darktide’s classes. That has not materialized. While we can pick a few predetermined background items and change our appearance, the classes/professions/careers (whatever we want to call them) are in essence the exact same, right down to mimicking some V2 mechanics (Zealot low health build, Kruber Bull Rush, etc). Look, I don’t even mind, but it certainly doesn’t live up to the original expectation set by FS.

The consensus is that the game was rushed to launch and results in most of the issues we are seeing currently. Add on top of this the controversial MTX system, the time gated RNG aspects of the game (weapon shop, etc), inability to choose missions and difficulties, the fact that private lobbies were an add-on, solo play is under development, and you have a recipe for healthy skepticism.

The issue that has been put to the side because of all of the immediate issues is that FS is actually considering charging for additional classes. We need only point to V2 and its 15 classes (3 per character) that it launched with. It had a LOT more content/player agency at launch, for less the price. It wasn’t perfect, sure, but it offered more. This wouldn’t be as much an issue if the original expectation that the DT classes would be so much more/different than V2’s career system had been met. It hasn’t, and in most cases the classes are a copy of some sort.

Right now, DT adds some wonderful new mechanics, but also reverses MANY successful aspects of V2, at a higher price point. It currently gives less for more: less player agency, less classes, less freedom from RNG, etc. To charge for classes that its predecessor already included while providing nothing more in return (again, even less), is actually insulting. DT wants to be a GaaS, but to do that needs to offer a WOW factor beyond its previous title. It has the potential, but isn’t there yet. So I ask you, please DO NOT charge for classes. Or at least wait until we have at LEAST the same amount as your cheaper, widely successful Vermintide 2.

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Agreed, at least make 4 more on the house before starting to charge heavily for them.

And for god sake put out a lot more maps, i see on the launcher saying theres a new mission but i can only see the old ones there, what is it called?

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With how much cosmetics cost it would be cringe if at least the early classes were premium purchases.

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Hello,

I hope the developers understand the opening statement of your 5th paragraph.

Incomplete for its launch.

Fatshark, what happened?

image

Thanks,
Gunship

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Yep. And add to fact that it seems we may only get one a quarter… That’s a long time for them to get back to V2’s launch count.

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Indeed. It’s the incompleteness that only serves to highlight the existing issues, in addition to future paid items. I am pretty certain that had they truly achieved the WOW GaaS factor that these wouldn’t really be such pain points for the community.

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I think this totally depends on how much they make on the MTX store.

The best solution would be that they make two packs, one free with the class so that everybody can play it for free, and a “bundle” with the class + skins for about maybe 5-6€?

I think the reason behind the “maybe” paid classes is because they wanted to see how much money they are pulling in on the store, and I would guess its quite a bit with nearly everyone running around with premium cosmetics (including me).

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Haha especially now with Steel Legion.

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Anything that’s not releasing 2 other classes per character for free, won’t sit well with me, and I’m even being generous, as we have one less whole character in DT.

I paid for VT2 careers, I won’t do the same here, in VT they felt like extra content, here they are missing content, I already paid for the game, now deliver it.

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i think they were fully aware that DT launch is gonna be rough, and lacking in content.
pretty sure they went with it anyway because outside factors, and just hoped the backlash wouldn’t be that high.

my favorite guess is

Xmas sales
Xmas marketing campaign already paid
big brother tencent
run out of funds

there’s just no way someone who worked on V2 would think that DT release is gonna be satisfying.

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This is also one of the reasons i am not as optmist about darktide, a huge chunk of whoever worked on vermintide left the company one by one, fatshark is just a company name, the actual talent keeps changing over time.
It might suffer the same fate as blizzard in the future where basically everyone who helped the company grow dropped out and whats left is a bunch of new talent cursed to keep momentum, future projects will became an echoe of whats in the past.

Also happened to halo.

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Yeah, I definitely agree on the outside factor points. No company does a rush-release without external pressures. The part that is hard to swallow is the backwards step in QoL features and design. It only serves to highlight the missing parts when you have actively negative components.

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It feels like often when Fatshark majorly reworks a system, its an experiment. VT1 weapons were fantastic, with the rarity directly corresponding to the baseline stats and how many modifiers it could have. VT2 equipment took a long time to get right. For at least a month or two after launch power simply didn’t function, and it felt like they artificially padded out gear acquisition vs VT1, due to having to grind max power level gear instead of just the rarity you wanted. Athanor was apparently a great system, I never got around to weaves. Then with chaos wastes they gave us an ultra streamlined version of the base game upgrade system, why didn’t they make a streamlined version of athanor?

Now with darktide we’ve got the same problem as VT1 to VT2. The equipment is an order of magnitude more variable than VT2. Not only that, but crafting won’t give as much control as it used to. It just feels like they’ve artificially padded out the gear acquisition curve of VT2, this time far worse than the comparison of VT1 to VT2.

The core gameplay in VT1 was good enough that people played for thousands of hours. The tide games are fairly intense coop experiences, I’m not sure why Fatshark think that extending the gear acquisition curves to infinity will appeal to the majority of gamers, who aren’t expected to play the game for more than 100 hours.

Multiply the awful gear grind by 4 and its understandable people are very unhappy with split progression. If we have to pay for each subsequent class, I can’t see many players being bothered with 30-80 hours of under-powered, famished gameplay trying to bring them back up to spec, let alone every quarter.

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I don’t understand how they can charge for anything in this broken game, the initial cost should probably be refunded to everyone since it is still crashing.

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There better be riots if they charge for the 2nd subclass…

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If they’re charging a quarter of the price of the game for a skin bundle, I hate to think what they’d try charging for a new class.

Holy [redacted] the community meltdown will be epic if they try it.

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There is a reason why warframe is such a powerhouse today.
I bought it during its beta and played it for a long time.

The amazing goodwill and ability to grind to get everything drove it to what it is today.
All guns and classes were quests or some rng grind to unlock, or instant buy in cashshop.
so long as they take this approach, they will win at being a live service.

Warframe always had a new weapon or frame to chase, this was the reason why it was amazing. New gameplay was always around the corner, didn’t matter that we played the same procedural corridors over and over. New gameplay drives players.

Destiny 2 did/does a similar thing, they are just much worse at it and really toxic about it imo.

If the current state of the game is anything to go by, then we will most likely see them take the destiny 2 approach and keep up with the whole, no pay no play, mindset. And we’ve already paid for scraps, if we want more, they need more pay.

I hope I am wrong though, since the game is so obviously a closed grind loop for early access, a really bad one at that.
that means we might have a whole game waiting for us over the next year.
Here’s hoping that is the case and fatty mcsharky knows they’ve fudged up but are working to remedy it.

I mean they did move the original release date, and it was pushed out unfinished. They most likely fought to keep it from releasing in this state for awhile but probably couldn’t push further than now.

However, that would also show us who’s in charge and what is important… And since gameplay drives players, it also drives sales…

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I agree with not charging, at least for the first few, but I would rather they move away from ‘classes’ all together.

Instead of releasing an entire class just give us more options with the current archetypes. Just give us another Ability, Blitz, and Aura and let us choose between them. Give us another 1 or 2 Iconic and let us choose 2 from them. Give us another feat or 2 per level and let us have more choice.

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Yep, agree. I do feel this wasn’t necessarily a choice, but more of a last resort. My gut tells me revenue was needed for 2023 budgets. Which is fine! Businesses have to be able to sustain themselves and their employees. The problem is the lack of transparency or honesty. The game should have been released as early access and made it’s money that way. On top of that, add detailed information about, what appears to be, pretty radical design choices for the RNG shop, lack of agency in missions, etc. People tend to be more forgiving when you are straight with them. No, they won’t like the news, but they feel like they’re a partner in the transaction. Partnership-focused selling goes much further than transactional, which is why major businesses pay big bucks for those with the skills to do it.

But, as it stands, the community was left guessing on a lot of things, and when they were.oresented with the reality it was far less than their imagined (right or wrong) expectations.

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i dont mind paying for character that will bring something new like techpriest, skitarii, ratling or commissar etc. when it comes to what we have just slap one more bar on characters, where you can change his talents and aura like veteran to breacher who will be better with plasma, melta. give him melta bomb instead of granades some new weapons to use like granade luncher and you dont have to make new character grind money, materials and most of weapons. hell you can have your special show heavy armored targets instead of elites ( i dont expect more at this point) but how FS is intending to do it i dont know :smiley: i wish we will get more classes/ archatype then subclasses but that is just my wishful thinking.