Fatshark, you need to have a serious conversation with the fanbase

I don’t know what kind of development hell this game went through, but I would kinda like to know. It sure sounds like they struggled with the shooter aspect, and tried very hard to differentiate classes, weapons and mechanics from VT2, only to scrap pretty much everything at the very last moment without even considering adding a big enough delay to fix things. Because greed ? Or corporate meddling ? probably both

I mean, I’m not sure this mess is salvageable. I’ve got 150 hours, 2 classes at lv 30, and I really don’t feel like playing more anytime soon, because I believe I’ve seen almost everything this game has to offer. Compare it to 1000 hours on VT2, and… yeah. It’s gonna take a lot more than a few QoL updates to bring back people like me. It’s gonna take closer to a year, I’d wager.

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I feel like when people heard dan abnett was on board, they expected the game to have a mass effect caliber story driving the whole thing, when at the same time, everyone praises the games breathtaking vistas and atmosphere, saying about how “on point” the feel is and how well they hit the 40k nail on the head.
THAT’S dan abnetts work.
They consulted him about everything that had to do with lore, even the models of the doors and tables in little slum huts.
It’s not the story, it’s the setting, there is no story, it’s a hord-game.

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Actually that is very interesting to note that in the announcement trailer for Darktide only portrayed 4 guardsmen.
That was 2 years ago (Jul 23, 2020), so I would assume Darktide was a decent amount into development at that time.

Then later that year ( Dec 11, 2020) we got the official gameplay trailer, where the Ogryn and Zealot were featured, missing out the Psyker:

Even the release date announcement trailer (Mar 31, 2022) didn’t feature a Psyker, or at least I don’t think the woman to the left looks one.

Tho, two months after that trailer (Jun 1, 2022), we finally got the Psyker revealed.

So yeah, ofc these are very surface-level observations and we can’t truly know for sure, but as I see it, it seems like the classes of Darktide only got into their final stages just as the game was about getting shipped out the door.

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It’s not that there’s no worldbuilding, nobody is complaining about that, but CLEARLY there was a narrative story that was in the works for a while that is simply missing. We can see what’s left of it in the cutscenes, they wouldn’t be there if they didn’t have any intentions of having an overarching narrative. You don’t need to pay for someone like Dan Abnett if all you’re gonna use him for guiding your art direction; it’s a waste of a writer. People like to forget that VT2 absolutely did have a plot and order of events; each map could be (not mandatory) played in order to see the story unfold. There’s narration and a clear direction to what you’re doing and why. There is nearly nothing in darktide. The narrative is missing, the missions functionally have no point besides being the literal gameplay. You’re not doing a certain thing in a certain area for a certain reason; you are picking your map off of the rng table and you get what you get. The mission objectives changing, while cool, seriously hampers the ability to tell a story with each map as it’s just the same copy/paste objectives randomized every once in a while. The story, or what’s left of it, is pretty lacking by comparison. Now, the problem with not being as effective telling the story through these randomized missions could and would be mitigated by having a good narrative story. Which isn’t there. That is the issue with it.

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devs can you read this? yes, hello?! bang bang this thing on?! hello!

that guy standing over your desk with the fat stacks of money sticking out of his pockets? maybe he’s twirling his pensile mustache? the one that came up with the cosmetic store idea and told you to prioritize microtransactions over literally every other aspect of the game. yes, him. heads up, he’s evil. feel free to harm him physically. it’s fine! trust me! you can hit him with your stapler, keyboard, monitor… really anything close and heavy. keep hitting him until he leaves the building forever. you can do it. i believe in you. choose violence (in minecraft) and free yourself. then fix the game i know you tried to put love into but failed abysmally.

thanks!

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Yeah, this is something I’ve been thinking about and I think had an impact on a lot of gameplay systems. It seems pretty clear that Psyker was a relatively late in development change, the second Guardsman looks more in line with a sergeant based on what they’re using and that’s supposedly one of the classes revealed in a datamine - there were also variants for Ogryn and Zealot but no additional ones for Pskyer which would make sense if it was only added in later. This would explain why Pskyer feels less balanced than the other classes.

This is less supported conjecture, but I think that there was meant to be more silo-ing for weapons as well. If you look at the earlier trailers the zealot is the only one using autoguns, the two veteran classes have slightly different lasguns but that’s less distinct. This is pure speculation but I think that lasguns were meant to be restricted to the veteran class, autoguns to the zealot - it would fit their archetypes better and would actually make the shop function better as well as by virtue of their being a smaller pool to roll from you would have a greater chance of getting the weapon you wanted. It would also allow for more precise balancing as making veteran ranged feats work for both Las and Auto guns without gimping either of them for the zealot seems like a bit of a nightmare. This could’ve been dropped because they were worried about players complaining about lack of weapon access or variety (Though I personally think it makes vet and zealot feel really samey unless you use the class specific weapons) or it could have been part of the changes when Psyker was added ‘We don’t have enough time to give them a full roster of staffs so just open up most of the weapons to all classes’.

I feel like a more elegant solution would have been to give the Psyker access to the pistols while locking them from the other classes - this would also work nicely with their force push option for them, but it’s too late to change any of this now unfortunately.

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Inb4 people say “no xeno allowed in 40k”.

My brothers in Khaine, Necromunda has a spire reserved for xeno ambassadors. Killing aliens on sight is for the unwashed masses. Inquisitors, rogue traders, and high-ranking imperials deal with and work with xeno all the time.

Give me an eldar corsair or drukhari class. Make it so we we’re captured by the Inquisition during a pirate raid, and now they’re putting us to work fighting chaos.

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Then they should have made that clear instead of leaving it vague enough for customers to infer there’d be more.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

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I had a similar thought, in that the story in this game seems to be presented to the player in the manner our characters would be exposed to it - by the rumour mill. The higher ups don’t run briefings to explain everything to the chaff, why would they, we’re disposable assets. So our characters have to swap tidbits on missions and in the mess hall to figure out what the hell is going on.

IF (liberal application of salt grains required) that was their intent, while “fluffy” isn’t a very sound design choice. The majority of players won’t want to piece stuff together like that, and there’ll be a lot of them whose brains don’t do puzzles very well and will never piece it together without reddit or something laying it out for them.

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The lore precedent for the employment of xenos is already super thin; and 99% of it falls to radical inquisitors of the ordo xenos and rogue traders (let me remind you rogue inquisitors are very often declared excommunicate traitoris and killed), and even then it is RARELY more than 1-2. The notion that a small craftworld worth of eldar would be employed on this ship is a fantasy at best; especially since we are ordo hereticus and there is absolutely no reason we wouldn’t kill the xenos on sight. It’s not our department at all. Us being in the ordo hereticus and the ship being owned by a rogue trader is not enough to justify it being a playable class and thousands of them running around the ship. Yes, we have ambassadors but we don’t employ xenos on a regular basis at all - is it very much in the smallest of minorities. No ‘high ranking officials’ regularly deal with xenos outside of specialists that train for it. It’s already very iffy on a small scale, and simply just falls apart on a macro scale. The Imperium isn’t the empire; their company policy is genocide of aliens. And no, that isn’t just a thing for the lower classes. That is an integral part to the lore of the setting.

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The Imperium works with xenos all the damn time.
Shooting xenos employed by an inquisitor is a good way to get vaporized on the spot.

And besides, FS is very good at putting lore on the sidelines in favour of gameplay, classes and the like, and we don’t know yet if the inquisitor we work with is a radical or not.
Excluding xenos at all from the game is a p*ss poor decision when we had a dwarf and an elf in VT-- I imagine a large portion of the fanbase wants to play something other than humans, me included.

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We are a suicide squad of rejects that failed meeting criteria or commited a crime and were sent to prison. We escaped with the help of some old lady that offered us a chance to die in prison, or die purging heretics.

As far as I can tell we work for the inquisition but we are not inquisitors, we use hand me down outdated weapons, and don’t have much of a choice as to what we do or don’t do.

As for Xenos and other races, the empire of man has no allies, there is no reason for us to party or even interact with Xenos, they are an abomination that goes against everything we are taught and must be purged on sight.

You should google about the imperium and its feelings towards anything that isn’t human.

Why can’t we all just get along?

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You should keep up with the current lore. Imperium has ties with every xeno faction that wants to trade with them.
It trades with tau, craftworld eldar, kroots, even some greenskin and dark eldar.
With the rise of the Ynnari, the Imperium now has deeper ties to the craftworld eldar than before, to the point where you can say they are actively allies to some degree.

If Fat Tuna wants to add xenos to the game, they could just give them a different origin than the human rejects, it’s that simple.

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Except we are playing in the past, shortly after the fall of cadia, and when the imperium was struggling with the it being cutoff by the great rift.

Wich is why we hear constant mentions about Cadia, and the veteran uses it in its dialogue a lot, as well as we are able to pick being born on Cadia.

So while the more modern lore does allow for xenos interaction, we are playing in a time when there was none.

The xenos interraction was way back then as well mate.

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I think you should take some time to read up on the events taking place during the time, and then come back.

Quick google skim to reply is not cutting it.

at this point, unless i see a download qued for darktide I’m not going to look at any news from fatshark.
i don’t want to hear about how they mismanaged their time, or ran out of it, or couldn’t request a delay or anything
I want them to just fix the game and do nothing else. that is the way they can salvage this situation, but buckling down, fixing the issues THEN saying “sorry, we messed up”

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When did I mention a craftworld? I was talking about corsairs and/or drukhari captured and enslaved by the inquisition. Corsair fleets are thousands strong. You could come up with any reason why a few hundred were captured and enslaved by the inquisition. If you’re worried about them “running around the ship” then thats more an issue with how Fatshark set up their hub, isn’t it? A more complete game might have different HQ areas for certain classes. Maybe the Xeno would be in their own heavily guarded wing. Maybe they’re in the same areas as everyone else, but armed guards follow them around and bark insults at them. There’s no reason not to get creative here.

Right now I’m playing 40k Rogue Trader’s alpha. I literally have an eldar in my party. I’m meeting with high-ranking officials who engage with xeno semi-openly. I have a trader who specializes in xeno-artifacts on my team. Yvraine saved Guilliman’s life. The tabletop RPGs have countless examples of humans and xeno reluctantly working together. Again, there’s a spire on Necromunda dedicated to xeno-diplomats.

The “purge the alien” meme is just the surface level, dude. It’s what the Imperium would LIKE to do, but it’s not feasible to be at constant war with every galactic superpower at all times. That’s a recipe for disaster. The only people in the Imperium who think like you do are called “mono-dominants”, and they’re pretty much universally despised because their politics are insane.

Your excuses don’t add up. The idea that 99% of the time it fails is ridiculous and not based on the books or codices.

Radical inquisitors don’t get excommunicated “very often”. That’s nonsense. Radical Inquisitors have massive amounts of power and entire sector’s worth of resources. One of the basic aspects of Inquisition is that it’s fractured and divided. It’s very hard to get a sizable number of inquisitors to agree that one of their colleagues is a heretic. Even then, the suspected inquisitor might have hundreds or thousands of allies across multiple sectors who would say otherwise. Radical Inquisitors are common enough that are considered one of two moral extremes in the RPGs (the other being puritan). In fact, most Inquisitors become MORE radical as they get older, because they lose their naivete. If you want to know what it takes to get excommunicated from the Inquisition, take a look at what happened to Kryptman when he discovered the Tyranids.

You also seem confused about the role of the Ordos Xenos and Hereticus. If anything, an Ordo Xeno inquisitor is MORE likely to kill aliens on sight, because that’s their job. It;s the other Ordos that are more likely to align with xeno, in a sort of “enemy of enemy” kind of way.

Back to Xeno characters, this isn’t nearly as uncommon as you make it out to be. The plotline of Dawn of War 2’s Eldar campaign centers around a group of Eldar in an uneasy alliance with an inquisitor (hereticus, I believe). I already brought up the return of Guilliman.

You’re also misunderstanding the scale of 40k. Sending a few thousand xeno prisoners to die fighting the enemies of humanity is nothing significant in terms of numbers. Eldar may be a dying race, but we’re still talking about a galactic scale here. None of this is “too big” or “too significant” to be feasible.

Corsairs also act as mercenaries for Imperials all the time. Usually under the table, but there’s nothing stopping an inquisitor from hiring a small fleet of corsairs to crush a planet’s worth of heretics.

So, in short, there’s no reason not to have xeno characters in the game, at least when it comes to kroot or eldar. There’s countless ways it could be approached. It has precedent in the books, the video games, the tabletop RPGs, and even in the game I’m playing right now (Rogue Trader). It’s silly to act like this can’t or shouldn’t happen, and it was silly for Fatshark to start us off without at least one non-human character.

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I think you’re confused. This takes place after the formation of the great rift, correct? So that means Yvraine has already resurrected Guilliman, right?

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