they even mention guilliman and his crusade in a little voice line
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I suggest you read up on the lore instead of looking at funny haha imperium xeno heresy memes all day.
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No xenos.
What a compelling argument based on nothing.
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Let’s be real here, the reason why all of this happened, is for the same reason why big budget projects constantly have garbage character and itemization systems: Because systems like that don’t take a big, expensive team of people to design. They take one person with a strong, coherent vision, and in a large studio with tons of huge egos floating around they aren’t going to let one person tell them what to do.
It’s always the things that a single indie dev in their garage can absolutely nail that big studios fail at. They fail at it because those are the things that should be handled by a single person with a vision. Systems design is like composing music. You can’t do it by committee.
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While I share the overall sentiment I have some critique with what you have said:
a) Rogue Trader (as game and as someone with a Warrant of Trade) is IMHO not a good measure for what is accepted in the Empire. They explicitly are excluded from Imperial law due to the founding charter that they are - by the purpose of their work - in a lot of contact with Xenos. Rogue Trader retinues are notoriously filled with Xenos.
b) The Dawn of War series really was not a high point of Warhammer 40k lore. Every time I read Dawn of War I think of somersaulting Terminators. While Guillimans work with the Aeldari is somewhat of an open secret it is not well received by a lot of powerful people in the Imperium. Even Gulliman himself does not trust them at all (after all they did for him) [see Dawn of Fire: The Gate of Bones].
There must be a good reason why the Imperium (not individuals) would work with the Aeldari. There would be a need for an escalation of the current situation. As far as I see it in Darktide there is a chaos insurrection (no Heretic Astartes as of yet) that is currently being combatted by the PDF and an Inquisitor. There are many more stages of escalation before it becomes a “we need help” situation. For example: Invoke Sector Command Militarum, Sector Command Inquisition, and Sector Command Imperial Navy. Send out requests for help to local Astartes Chapters. If that does not help you could petition with other Segmentum Commands etc …
c) Radical Inquisitors often find themselves pursued by the same agency that they originally served (Eisenhorn as an example). There is a reason why they are only one of the bigger sects in the Inquisition. A Puritan would not hesitate to invoke an “Extremis Diabolis” on a radical colleague that is a bit “too liberal” for his standards.
I am not disagreeing with you here - it could be possible that there is Aeldari/Kroot/Chianti/etc help. The lore is very open in this regard. But (again) imho Aeldari or Kroot would probably be a character like the Tech-Priest or the Commander. Very close to the Inquisitor him/herself or in one of those “Aurum Squads” (the proper Inquisitorial Stormtroopers) not with the cannon fooder dregs we are supposed to be at least until we reach lvl 30
I think there are so many more options for future operatives that don’t require: “but in theory, it could be possible”.
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Yeah, except having a few thousand xenos somehow gathered on the same frigate is silly to the point of being unbelievable. I would also not be so bold as to use very old video game writing as a lore justification for warhammer canon written in 2022. I used craftworld as a hyperbolic unit of measurement, as it is fitting when you’re implying we captured 1/5 of the darktide population as eldar to fight heretic guardsmen. It just utterly falls apart on that scale. If we’re allying with the xenos on THAT scale something much, much more serious is going on than the under-the-table heretic suppression gig we have going. I think you also need to do a not confirmation-biased rereading of the lore of the ordo xenos; their profession is to study xenos in order to kill them. They are the only branch authorized to consort with xenos, purely to get better information on them. Those who roll with aliens are radicals that are eventually killed. The ordo hereticus does not, and have never press-ganged massive amounts of aliens to kill heretics, it’s just silly man. We run a good chance of being killed for consorting with xenos over something as comparably minor as this insurgency, god forbid having enough in our service to form a guard regiment. It’s not our department at all. Your justifications other than that are largely weak generalizations about the nature of the eldar. I would like to see a single example of an ordo hereticus inquistor hiring a fleet of corsairs to fight chaos. You also keep flip flopping between corsairs and drukhari - MASSIVELY distinct populations with WILDLY different motives. One of them wants money and the other one wants to literally flay you alive and nothing else. Do you really think drukhari would do anything besides betray us at the first possible opportunity? I get you’re very die-hard for eldar being added but I bet you 50$ it’s not happening despite whatever justifications you try and come up for it. There just isn’t a place for them here. Neither them nor any xenos; far more likely to be a techpriest/commissar/ all sorts of imperial stuff to pick from.
Like RBadger said as an individual character maybe, but if you add that as a player class you have to somehow justify many thousands of them on board the mourningstar and it just falls apart there. There are many other options that are much, much more grounded to choose.
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You’re blatantly ignoring what I said in the rogue trader example. I’m speaking to regular imperial nobles who semi-openly trade with xenos. I already listed numerous examples of how this could work based on established precedent.
If you’re so triggered over aliens being on the ship then give them their own prison-like hub. Everything else here is just memeing with no understanding of how this universe works, or else it demonstrates a severe lack of imagination.
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“Imagination” isn’t a very strong argument. There are mountains of literature people imagined onto the page. Most of it’s garbage though. Just because you can dream it, doesn’t make it good.
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Making a Tide game that doesn’t allow for xenos when your previous Tide game had 2 non-humans wasn’t a very good choice either.
But then again, Fatshark’s goodwill was completely unraveled and demolished by the release of Darktide anyway, so… maybe do something about that and actually make a good game next time?
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They need to get there ***** out of holidays now, before the fanbase is dead. Remove those bugged hounds or at least this crap event, who had that great idea, it isnt april yet???
ogryns are not seen. noone plays the harder difficulties, no wonder i guess.
when i play veteran i see no ogryn at all, when i play ogryn i have three in my team and so on.
nothing has been done since they have gone into their holidays. it goes south quickly!
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the precedent for thousands of unnamed xenos running around in inquisitorial service just isn’t there and will never be. bardin and kerillian are named characters and its literally the end times, not just cleaning out some backwater hive city.
“Everything else here is just memeing with no understanding of how this universe works, or else it demonstrates a severe lack of imagination.”
proceeds to try and justify thousands of xenos in inquistorial service. if that’s your imagination, i’m sorry but that is fan-fiction tier. there is a precedent for maybe one or two in an aurum squad, NOT the literal cleaner squads we are. the devs made very clear in the story trailer that darktide - and this is literally word for word - is meant to be a HUMAN experience. if you’d like ill link you the trailer where they state that directly.
If you look at the state of things on our lovely little corrupted planet, I’d say it sets the perfect precedent for hiring external help.
A massive failure on Fatshark’s part, alienating all those who prefer xenos over humans.
I want to preface this with: I tried to stay friendly with the other poster but apparently, my friendliness is taken for naivety ( as described with: “let’s just pretend // you lack imagination // you don’t understand the universe”). I even gave the concession that while I disagree with the justification or the need, I could see it happen if circumstances would make it plausible.
If the discussion can not be based on the lore as is established and resorts to ad hominem attacks it would be a darn shame. Because I like discussing lore.
< preface over >
As I’ve said before: the IoM hasn’t even started to exhaust its own resources. There is no need for them to ask for help from the outside. The PDF still seems to still be fighting. There was no mobilization of larger Astra Militarum forces as of yet. No Astartes support is requested. Not even the Inquisition on the Morning Start (atm) is seeing the need to escalate with Inquisitorial Sector command. We don’t know most of these things definitively - but this is due to the lack of story. All we can observe is that there is still a hive presence of PDF forces and not the whole hive is overrun. This makes it still a local problem and not even a planetary one. Not a full-scale invasion (as of yet). There is no need to go against the Imperial law (as of yet). There are some pox walkers and renegade AM regiments and that is it.
And the comparison between DT and VT in regards to Dwarves and Wood-elves is not ideal.
The Empire in WHFB does not have xenophobia toward other races as a core tenant. There are Elven (High and Wood) Enclaves in Empire cities. The (High) Elves taught the first human mages. Dwarves helped build many of the landmarks and infrastructure of the Empire (sewers, churches, castles…). It is not unusual to see these races working together because they share a history.
The Dwarves especially are some of the closest allies to the Empire with large enclaves in any major city of the Empire. Sigmar and King Kurgan Ironbeard were close friends and this is also where Sigmar (the founder of the Empire and God-Deity) got his Warhammer from.
And all of this doesn’t even mention the fact that VT + VT2 play in the Endtimes where Vampire Bloodknights fought together with Bretonian Nobles to save Bretonia… just as an example of the ridiculousness.
This is not comparable to the way the IoM in 40k interacts with Xenos races. 40k is not Fantasy “just in space” even though they share similarities. They are distinct systems.
… and if “Bobby G got revived by Aeldari, therefore they are allies” (even though Bobby G himself says in the books at a later point during the Indomitus Crusade that he does not trust them [he that should trust them the most of all humans]) we can open the floodgates: Necrons possible… they worked together with the IoM at some points. Orks were used as a tool to eradicate Tyrannids (or at least slow them down). Some factions of the T’au have worked with the IoM before. There were some Inquisitors working with Drukhari (see the “Vaults of Terra” books)…
These were extreme circumstances. This is not the norm. Just because it is technically possible and happened before it is now something “normal”. And (again): what is happening in DT at the moment is far from an extreme event. The IoM is not even close to exhausting its resources.
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I don’t mind the intro. It’s OK. But both Vermintides had some kind of story in their campaigns and all the DLCs, and what we got here is a bunch of such generic missions that I find it insulting even to compare it to the previous games.
I can accept that the story is not complete, but the only place where it can be seen is in the levelling cut sceens - and that’s so little and so repetitive and so wrong in (the game) genre and design that I prefer not even to think about it.
I have heard more than a few such details - but the story that is not.
I finally heard a voice over of the characters talking about the Rogue Trader and they made it sound like there could be xenos on the Mourningstar, but of course the player characters hated this fact and think they should be shot. Take that as you will.