I've come to a conclusion

Fatshark is incredibly incompetent at their jobs. From the top to the bottom. No one at this company is up to the task of providing the game they promised. Truly a wondrous flustercluck.

8 months in and we still don’t have any meaningful content additions to a “live-service” game. We can barely get acknowledged by the community managers and when they deign to speak it’s to tell us they can’t say anything.

I advise you all to pivot to supporting a company like Larian that actually creates complete and meaningful work.

9 Likes

well we know they are working on the Xbox port and have resources tired into that right now.
we also know their are still issues with the game and due to the outcry to fix first content second.
FS has said they will be doing as the community has suggested and are working to fix first.

the game was released a year too early, which sucks yes, but they are working to make it better.
should they be held responsible for their games issues, yes, should we forget the release state no.

but even so they have made a fun game, and me and others enjoy playing it,
its not where i hoped it be all these months later, but its getting there.
and im hoping it will be back on track soon, :wink:

.
also lets not make it seem like Larian is a perfect company, did they make a great game yes.
is it amazing in most every way, yes and i am loving playing it, but theirs also alot of issues with it.
mostly in the romance areas and in multiplayer,

they have said they are working on fixes and im sure they will all be fixed soon, but still.
nearly flawless is still alittle flawed, but thats ok, if it were perfect how could you improve it.

Well combat and art guys are great, sadly people in charge don’t let tide games to reach their full potential. Not sure whom to blame for technical issues tho, all their games are poorely optimized, full of crashes and disconnects. Maybe due engine they use but if it so why there is no decision to move on another engine.

Like Fromsoftware, illustartes if there is a mastermind with a clear vision then game will be successful masterpiece. Games from authors > games from corpo analytics

5 Likes

Soon being a year post release…? It’s legitimately pathetic.

4 Likes

on time*

I do my best to be as measured as possible and I cannot agree that they cannot deliver what was promised. Despite however much staff is saddled with xbox this game has gotten noticably better over time and we have gotten three content drops. Classes are definitely coming, probably before the end of the year. They are, doubtless, about 1 year behind target. But the game itself is in, what i consider, an excellent MVP state for players to get hundreds and hundreds of hours of fun out of. As of patch 12.

4 Likes

Lay off the copium my guy it’s not good for you.

We’ve got no indication they’re really working on the port beyond it being a typical pattern, iirc, and we really have no indication of new classes ever showing up - and if they do, who’s to say that the other issues, like a limited number of save slots, won’t still be present?

4 Likes

We kinda have



Pay to unlock, he he

Have you tried to get people to come back to this game?

It is still a lot of bugs, bad optimization even for high-end PCs, potato servers. Not even gonna say about locks and rng. It’s fun for hundred of hours only for those of us who are in this 3k online number. For a regular people it’s a refund still, especially how this year is full of great games. And even for wh40k fans there will be Rogue Trader and Titus 2.

4 Likes

I’ve been thinking about this same question for a little while. Here’s my thesis:

From my end user perspective, I see three overarching “bad practices” at work that explain Darktide’s current status: Bad Design Decisions, Bad Product Management, and Bad Technical Delivery. Each of these has any number of underlying reasons that we can speculate on as to why the bad practices are exhibited, but it doesn’t alter the outcome.

Digging into this more:

=== Bad Design Decisions ===

Much of Fatshark’s efforts (that we can see publicly anyway) resolve around fixing bad design decisions -specifically everything NOT the core combat mechanics and gameplay. We’ve spent nearly a year now trying to get “core gameplay systems” like crafting implemented (and locks removed), the mission board improved, resources to be shared, etc. We’re finally getting some improvements here.

But it’s important to point out that many of these issues were problems for the community in the first place because somewhere along the line a design decision was made to implement systems that artificially inflate and bloat playtime. And it was probably made late in the hour so what we got was a half-implemented system that was already headed in the wrong direction.

WHY these decisions were made we might never know. Was it a CEO that drank the gacha-game cool-aid and went all in on mobile game tactics (timers, MTXs, slot machines etc.)? Was it Fatshark’s investors/owners (Tencent, cough cough) putting the screws to the studio? I don’t know. But I WILL say that this sort of anti-player design was cranked up to 11 in Darktide, when all indications based on VT2’s trajectory (i.e. Athanor/Weave crafting system) was that Fatshark was headed in a more player-friendly direction.

But we veered way off course.

Unfortunately, and per all the discourse around Baldurs Gate 3, the bad decisions are increasingly the norm for larger studios, especially ones owned by an IPO. If an investment company owns a development studio, I think the tragic reality is the passion for making a good player-centric game experience is simply not there. Raw profiteering fills the void.

Quick digression:

Also, I don’t actually buy for a moment that line that Fatshark has been “putting all this content on pause to address core design issues”. That’s a convenient excuse to use, and they can blame it all on the player base instead. They’re working on the console port and despite all this still had the cash shop up and running that whole time and even got the FOMO rotations going again. They’ve continued to push out new paid content and haven’t done anything substantial in the free content department (and certainly not up to “live service” standards). The balance changes and other quality of life features would not be a heavy lift, and it is inexcusable that it’s taken so long to get improvements.

=== Bad Product Management ===

Fatshark doesn’t really know how to manage their products relative to their audience. Even back to Vermintide #1 they’ve been seemingly mystified about why people play games in this genre (“we never thought people would play this for more than 100 hours!!!”).

The major whiff with Darktide was two-fold.

#1 was hyping up the game by saying “how much we learned from VT2” but in reality delivering something that was almost the exact opposite. All the lessons learned from what made VT2 successful were seemingly acknowledged and then thrown out. These “bad design decisions” set the community on edge.

#2 was not releasing the game as early access. It was evident by all accounts that the game was not only short on content (and still is) but woefully underdeveloped in many of its systems. The game released with effectively ZERO crafting system and a dearth of quality of life features that are still absent (and only partially resolved by using 3rd party mods).

What Fatshark spectacularly failed to realize is that IF they had released in Early Access, the community would’ve cut them so much more slack. IF Fatshark could muster up the gumption to be honest and level with the community during an Early Access period, they wouldn’t have immolated all the goodwill they built up from VT2.

Fatshark over-hyped, over-promised, and grossly under-delivered. This has been a spectacular failure to manage expectations and the perception of their product. Fatshark is sitting on a potential goldmine between the core combat system, the IP, and all the places they could take this game. But they’ve really squandered the momentum they had.

As for WHY the bad product management? I don’t think the lead decision makers are willing to stick their necks out and take the heat stemming from their decisions. I think they’d rather let their community go at each other’s throats over it. Its sad, but that’s all there is.

=== Bad Technical Delivery ===

Last is the reality that Fatshark is just slow and sloppy when it comes to delivering. And it’s just always been this way for Fatshark.

Patches routinely break stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with the current changes. A new patch will RE-BREAK something that was previously fixed patches ago. Optimization will continue to be a shell game of kinda-sorta improvements. Fatshark has always suffered from this.

I don’t know what workflows and version control protocols they use, but clearly something is off. And this bad technical delivery does unfortunately impact how long it takes for them to develop new content. Things should go faster the more you do it, not slower.

How can we expect them to design and deliver new sub-classes when it took them months to get Feats on many classes working properly, let alone balanced, in the first place? How can we expect new maps at a regular cadence when it takes them ages to push out a new map despite claiming their modular map system would make it quick and easy to generate new maps? We have weapon variants with broken hit box priorities. Changes that are clearly not QA’d sufficiently, and on and on.

=== CONCLUSION ===

I want Darktide to be a successful game. I don’t have a lot of gaming time these days, yet despite all the complaints this is the only game I still play regularly since it came out, much as it pains me at times.

Of the three bad practices above, its understandable having one rear its ugly head. Two is a serious case of going off the rails. All three at once is a royal cluster krak. The miracle is that there are still some of us left hanging on and wanting this to turn out good in the end. Maybe we’ll still get there - but it’s a grim road ahead still.

14 Likes

Remember how they lied they can’t release comm link cause of technical issues, but in reality cause another way there is nothing to show at warhammer skulls, lol. They even lie on such samll things that it’s a straight insult to the community.

7 Likes

I think that may have been because of the crossplay announcement getting delayed. They wanted to show off crossplay at Skulls per the leaked info sent to game news sites, but it got cancelled at the last minute, and instead we got it as a commlink a few weeks later. They didn’t have enough to show at skulls without crossplay so they decided to move up the prior commlink into it.

The ‘technical issue’ was a technical issue with crossplay that spooked them out of announcing it, so technically correct lol.

I mean they could have said they decide to move it at skulls shows, i can understand they may be forced to show something there cause of some conratc with GW. People would have been dissapointed cause why they should wait more? But they did say nothing about skulls show like it’s gonna be a some kind of surprise, but everyone knows they moved it there.

Just one. He said he thinks VT2 has more content and a broader variety of gameplay. Which is true on the first and kinda true on the second. I find VT2 to have a narrower total range of engagements and distinct enemy types that aren’t broadly speaking reskins. However within its narrow range it is excellent at what it does and there is a greater range of missions and modifiers to those missions. I’m especially fond of chaos wastes. Maelstrom doesn’t really compete there despite how fun it is.

Darktide has a slew of problems but i don’t see most of them as so bad you won’t get 40-100 hours of good quality fun out of them especially as a more casual player AND most of the most annoying things i really truely loathed were patched out in patch 12.

5 Likes

It also feels like there’s some issues in communications between and within the systems teams, what with all the haphazard layering of systems that if looked at together compound (make worse) any UX issues they have.

Probably no one in Fatshark actually plays the game as a normal player would (to get a feel for the overall progression) and testing is either non-existent or so tunnel visioned it might as well be non-existent.

With the latest Maelstrom patch, I think Darktide is the most fun it has ever been.

If it was originally released nine months ago in the state it is now, I doubt it would have lost that many players.

2 Likes

I have a very distinct feeling that this IS someone’s very clear vision, and it’s just their vision can’t see the problems. I’ve worked with people like that, though not in a long time. Some can be made to see it but only by the right person.

Also, BG3, while it seems good to me… well, I’m not far in, and a lot of people think it’s just been too long since we have a old school rpg. bg2 was one of my favorite games back when.

1 Like

I agree - but also part of it is the cadence of content drops. If the game released as it was today AND Fatshark delivered on their promise to release a new subclass every 3 months plus (I’d assume) some other content in between, then the initial success would have some momentum to carry it along.

Building an enduring audience is (A) not doing things that push people away and (B) make reasons for people to keep coming back. DT is still trying to fix things that push people away and the cadence and impact of the new things they’ve added just isn’t enough.

3 Likes

agreed its far from ideal,

i dont think this was the launch anyone wanted for this game,
Darktide is not a bad game, far from it but it has a lot of issues.
most seem to be getting fixed but still it was a rocky launch.

whats that Famous Miyamoto Quote About Delayed Games?
‘‘A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad’’
we think of games for how they are but also mostly how they launched.

Arkham Knight on the PC, Battlefield 4, the list goes on though some games recover some dont.
my hope is that this is just a rocky start and in the coming year their will be more positive notes.
but its still a ways off, and the game has to survive to that point.

FS seems to be trying, the Devs are passionate about DT, im hopeful. :slight_smile:

1 Like

First impressions last.
So do reviews and ratings.

I am honestly confused by how much they apparently focus on the console release, while a lot of massive issues have not been resolved yet.
Any reasonable person would make use of all the feedback they have gotten so far, and solve all of the major issues before releasing the game to a new audience.

They should do everything in their power to polish the game and boost the ratings before console release.
At least make a good first impression with the console audience.