Personally, I don’t evaluate class fantasy when I’m playing so maybe I’m off base here. But every single Desperado build I run, including off meta, since Pickpocket change has no more than 10% of my damage coming from melee, usually less. It’s baffling that melee’ing just that small amount is some sort of crisis for the design of the class. My understanding is that the left side of the tree was the “gunslinger” archetype per the FS blog and I fail to see how I’m not slinging gun when I play this character.
The complaining is clearly because they can’t shoot >97% of the time instead of only >90% of the time
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Kinda like that’s how FS does their marketing these days so it was the main thrust of why people bought the class maybe?
And you could go look at the skills on gameslatern or in patch notes before buying.
The melee requirement for ammo return did not exist during the peak purchasing period for the DLC. Now melee is required.
Textbook bait and switch for a product, no matter how many times or how loudly you want to shout “entitlement” like it’s some bad word.
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So they never said that then, they just showed a Scum blasting through enemies with the Dualies
Where does that translate as “infinite ammo”
So you’re genuienly telling me that the whole reason players bought an entire class was because 1 overtuned blue talent, and once nerfed the class lost all identity that the devs supposedly “baited” them with?
If that requirement was available since day 1, people would not be complaining about not being able to keep shooting as Scum funnily enough
They got the taste of a mega OP safe playstyle, and when it was taken away people instantly complained, which is why I call it entitlement in this case
Because they never advertised the class as eternal shooting
They didn’t remove Desperado, they didn’t remove the Gun Scum playstyle, You can still do it to this very day
I want Desperado buffs for non automatic weapons (revolver, combat shotgun)
But how much of a baby do you have to be, to see current Hive Scum, and think the whole gun playstyle is ruined because 1 single blue talent change???
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The YouTube class overview mentions multiple times that the class has infinite ammo as part of a talent or abilty. Other affiliated channels also highlighted this specific talent before release.
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My understanding of textbook bait and switch is that there would need to be some element of deception on FS when selling HS. That they had some intention to remove only ranged gameplay after release to boost initial sales. I don’t think that is the case here, it’s accessible through Desperado still and the requirement to melee for Pickpocket is only a minor adjustment to the state of the class overall. I’ve not seen any advertising that was selling ranged-only gameplay either.
They certainly are trying to provide a powerful version of hive scum but in just different ways, just look at the other stuff in the tree they’ve changed.
Given they have a history of OP DLC classes that get nerfed eventually, I’m not so charitable on the rubric.
And that’s not something the average consumer or new player may know, before that argument is made.
ok, but is it wise (both in balance and gameplay terms) to put all bets on such talents of a newly released class, not knowing how it’ll cascade into the flow of a match and possible op-ness and resulting nerfs?
yes over promising is the devs fault, its the players problem though to sit in that mess and I rather have it changed later so everyone is on equal terms again than new shiny stuff permanently 30% above the cut in a 45° linear increase graph style.
prognosis on that would be the 4th dlc way over arbites cause otherwise there’d be no selling point, old classes obsolete, new “revamp”& power creep, rinse and repeat.
that can’t be a desirable outcome, can it?
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Honestly; Yes but no.
Normally in most other games there would be a significent downside. I would like to inmagine fatshark thought the 20% limit and on elite kill was enough, but then again veteran release. (and enemy selite/special spawn currently scales it in higher diff)
Gameplay wise it is doable, just spitting out some ideas, double block cost, 1 less dogde, xx% less melee damage, no penetration on ranged hits. Cant select or use toxins. (similar to arbiter with dog or lw) as downsides.
I remember a bunch of these said something along the lines of “It’s probably getting nerfed” during those videos
You could be right about that, i didnt notice it tho.
It think both sides have a valid argument on this matter, some want to protect the core identity of tide games, others want what they paid for, i understand both sides and both have good reasons for having strong opinions.
I just hope the new class will have a good and balanced launch.
Can only hope this means it’s getting much more thorough playtesting than HS did. : )
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Probably not gonna happen but hey, it’ll bring a lot of people into the game solely because admech
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okay, but given arbites and now scum, for the next class I call “pattern recognition”, so people should expect fatshark to shine, wine and dine with whatever comes and “adjust” it later.
perfect world power creep never happened and every class would have parity, alas here we are.
Shouldn’t the veteran be the “pure shooting” class?
Not that it’s guns but staff psyker fulfills that role.
I do think moving pick pocket to the ranged key stone makes sense.
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Luckily that’s were we come in, then it is up to fatshark to do something with the feedback.
I would love some clarity from fatshark how they gather feedback, how heavie it weights vs the numbers on their end or if they even do something with it.
Let’s be real here. The vast majority of people who bought Hive Scum as a DLC did not even know Pickpocket existed as a talent. Those who did should have known better also. Darktide today is quite a different game from Darktide when it launched. Whole classes have been redesigned, not even individual talents.
Finally, as presented by multiple people post the changes, the identity of Desperado as the ranged archetype has not changed. You just cannot simply hold mouse1 for 100% of the game, and never bother with picking ammo here and there or just stabbing a light elite or special for a quick ammo refill.
I mean, in damnation every class can do that. Maybe you rushed too hard and left your teammates to watch the kill notifications before and “haven’t noticed”. Melee scum can definitely outperform ranged scum even before the nerf, now even more so.
Just for good faith debate I will list some other class abilities that can delete 7 ragers in damnation:
Ogryn nuke
PBB (it’s still mega-crap tier tho)
Psyker assail
Gun psyker
Vet Shredder grenades
Bolter (all classes that has access to it)
With the right buffs, psyker staves
EO arbites with IAG
veteran with Fast RoF weapon and ES
Should all these be nerfed out of the game too?
“use your ranged ult ability to melee” LMAO, you really want it to become PBB2 huh? what a joke, if zealot at least had that bug that enhanced ranged damage on fury this wouldn’t be as funny. hYbRiD gAmEpLaY everybody! Except if you like ranged, then f* you!
In reality this mean becoming an eternal back liner, which translates into not triggering melee mini-game, which in turns makes this class low tier and obsolete in higher difficulties. It’s not doing anything good besides being a rocket bot maybe.
What do you call 17 seconds if not “few seconds”? How much are you stretching the logic here in favour of downplaying the nerf?
No vay?! I thought it was not a big deal! /S
Wow, so much fun and engagement! I’m glad you guys petitioned for this nerf so everyone can finally know what fun should feel like, rather than relying on subjective personal feelings. Please, go ahead and dictate how I should feel about other things too!
Had the game been released with flavourless humans with the same weapon poll, there wouldn’t be no darktide, true.