good joke
The difference is that they have to use ammo that they can’t regenerate as easily as Scum (vet is closest and even then he can’t afford permashooting horde unless running recon alone), or get to the enemies before me
Unless inferno psyker, which is globally deemed a problem
Literally all of them use a resource, with the exception of Assail. AT THE VERY LEAST Psyker slows down when using staves
Hive scum can regenerate the resource used to shred those ragers extremely easy, which means he can keep shooting the ragers and commons as well
If Pickpocket wasn’t nerfed, then it would be even easier to regenerate that already easy to generate resource for Scum
I mean… if you’re at 0 ammo overall, and you know you can’t extend your ult for much, why not?
People who don’t want to benefit from the ranged immunity to get an easy melee kill are weird to me
So this run never happened? (literally recorded yesterday, first try, with randoms)
It gets even funnier since it’s on Rotten Armour + Moebian 21st, 2 very bad modifiers for Desperado since killing stuff takes so long that it’s hard to keep desperado up compared to other modifiers
Is this class still low tier and useless in the highest difficulty?
?
17 whole seconds is little? are we serious right now? Yeah, if I asked anyone if 17s was a lot to complete a minigame, everyone would be saying yes
If I asked anyone if 17s was a lot of time in general for this game, especially during combat, they’ll say yes
On Stimm Supply it is kind of a big deal since you aren’t fast, you won’t spend much resources on melee either
And I like that, if you want to spam needle, you should melee stuff yes
(Look at how you’ll somehow take this as me saying “Rampage scum is fine” even though I said 9999999 times that Rampage is OP alongside Hyper Violence and both need nerfing but you’re this delusional)
“Nono you see, I shouldn’t care if my teammates have any fun at all, I should be able to HOG all the fun by myself, be extremely safe, deal huge damage and get every kill”
That’s how pickpocket nerf criers sound like
“You want to nerf something OP? ah… so you want every class to be the same, using the same weapon poll… gotcha tryhard!”
That was balanced by giving HS only “bullet” weapons, it doesn’t even got access to the spearhead boltgun. The only weapon that you could say overperforms is the needle pistol, which is a signature unique weapon like plasma, flamer, staves etc. All of the signature weapons generally outperform “generalist” weapons, that’s fine IMO, I’m not arguing needle pistol doesn’t need adjustments. And even if they are using a needle pistol to shoot those 7 ragers in damnation, if you are already stuck in the blob you are probably getting the kills yourself if you are playing melee, all the needle scum is doing is bloating his toxin damage numbers.
HS has an unique feature with desperado with is another class specific thing, that allows them to sprint while shooting, is this another nerf-call? scum should become a turret when firing his stub pistols and desperado?
Psyker only have to press R for a few seconds. 0 stakes involved as long as you played the game for a couple of hours at least. It allows psyker to kill everything, even rotten armour hordes extremelly well. Ranged scum was not quite flame staff tier and had a “front-liner” aspect that separated them from flame psyker, being a front liner comes with it’s on set of challenges that balances out having “infinite resources”. In damnation there’s is even that many elites/specialists to trigger pickpocket so Ranged HS players wouldn’t be that much of a menance in damnation.
This feels like a “taking both lanes” approach. It was only “easy” to trigger on specialist or elite spam difficulties, which isn’t what you guys usually argue for. In H40, ranged scum with the original pickpocket wasn’t an issue. Melee players claiming they “can’t play the game” are exaggerating wildly, without offering any evidence beyond opinions and bias. I haven’t seen a single pro–pickpocket-nerf advocate provide a screenshot of ranged scum outperforming melee gameplay, ever. So which difficulty are we talking about again?
Why don’t ask for the ranged buff for fury on zealot to be reverted then? Different things same logic.
Yes it is.
Now you are just trolling me, you have to be.
Oh are we back to insults again? Ran out of lies and mental gymnastics? I was expecting better, your last posts were way higher quality than the usual nerf cultist propaganda slop that is singed here, won’t be answering to insults anymore tho, it’s against the forum rules or smt.
As always, this goes both ways, it’s a different opinon thing that we clearly won’t ever agree with each other with. I think we should hold fatshark accountable for all the director spam instead of fighting.
If the shoe fits…
Dude, I play every class. I’ve been around since VT1. Handmaiden and Slayer were my go-tos in VT2. Stop it; it’s not helpful.
I’m interested in the broader discussion, though I gotta say 17 is more than “a few” lol. “Few” is like several, tops. Definitely under 10. 17 is right out.
Just sayin’… if y’all can’t even agree on that there’s truly no hope.
Yeah, this is true, and I honestly can’t be @rsedrsed to look through this thread, but if there’s substance it’s not worth culling from the chaff. Apologies to anyone who really wanted an argument and doesn’t understand that this is not about “buffing” the class. It’s about fixing problems with it. The class is over-statted, but also became less fun to play. The crit rate on the class is ridiculous, Boom Bringer is too good at its role and the easiest fix to try is keeping the same level of power but reducing ammo.
People complained about Shooter Scum killing everything, and it is/was at or near the top in raw DPS. People also over-estimate this, too, because the class is the worst in the game at dealing with heavy armor if it doesn’t have grenades (and I am specifically talking Gun-focused Scum here, bear in mind). I think it should be a good DPS class, but not kill everything that isn’t heavy armor super quick, but should be able to shoot forever as its gimmick.
It just has to be balanced, along with the whole class that is in a very poor state. It’s only functional by dint of being severely overstatted.
Yeah the “bullet in question being worse than bolter”
And it gets even funnier, this IAG doesn’t have +Unyielding, but the Boltgun does have +Unyielding
Bolter is overtuned but at least it has drawbacks, bad accuracy when aiming, slow deploy time unless you use a knife on Zealot (so Vet and Arbites have to suffer it)
Meanwhile Hivescum gets to do this with just a “bullet” weapon. Now I’m not saying this needs nerfing in my personal opinion, but you gotta understand this needed some drawback, and the pickpocket change solved that drawback in my opinion
I don’t know who would ask for this tho
You’re arguing with yourself here
You’re right
This is exactly why:
1- Inferno staff needs nerfing
2- Psyker is slowed down when casting with a staff
Voidblast is defenitely overtuned too, but it does feel a lot more fair than Inferno Staff since you can’t press m1 to stagger an infinite amount of enemies in front of you but monsters and crushers, or have infinite cleave on a super wide area, you can still deal big dmg if played properly I wouldn’t mind seeing all Psykers play with Voidblast instead of Inferno
I always argued balance for Damnation/Auric (Previously Heresy before removing sedition or whatever the lowest diff name was)
There’s tons of elites and specials there
Also wdym by “I haven’t seen a single pro-pickpocket-nerf advocate provide a screenshot of ranged scum outperforming melee gameplay”, didn’t my vid showcase that?
Because at least when talking about me, I don’t even know how it worked so I can’t really say if it should be reverted or not (remember I’m on the newer side of this game’s lifespan, starting on september 2024 or so)
It’s hard to not call you delusional here when I provided indisputable proof about Desperado Hivescum putting huge numbers, as well as anti ranged value, in a game with modifiers that should apparently make it bad
How can you really say “Yes it is low tier and useless, I don’t care you did top dmg as well as top elite and special kills, against a psyker with inferno + shriek, alongisde modifiers that nerf the Desperado playstyle”
I’m serious here
What, you take more than 17s to complete minigames from the map or smt?
“lies and mental gymnastics”
I provided proof of my claim regarding Desperado’s viability in higher difficulties, I didn’t lie?
Also, my remark was because of your constant posts making the claim that “the zealot players don’t want rampage nerfed” or anything along these lines, when the entire forum agrees Rampage needs nerfing
We do, on practically all armour spam related discussions (example: kraks, DoT, and so) we always argue that the anti armour needs nerfing, as well as an inmediate reduction of armoured enemies as well
What’s this supposed to mean in the context of what I said pfff
A healthy game would be a game that offers options, 85% of the weapons aren’t used in Auric because 15% of the weapons and abilities are super overtuned
And it’s not even about the “good usable stuff”, because you won’t really see me arguing that Relic Blade should be nerfed, but the things that need to be nerfed are way stronger than Relic Blade
Good god, look at that novel. XD All to say you don’t see a need to change it because it’s still fun for you. The fundamental difference is that I like it when games do something unique; like Heroes of the Storm. Remember that MOBA? I loved characters like Probius and Murky and Deathwing and Cho’Gall. They were extremely UNIQUE. They broke trends of the game for the sake of “fun”. I want that. You want everything to fall within the existing bounds of Darktide.
I think Fatshark had better be thinking very carefully about going outside the box. Because the base game is great, don’t get me wrong. But it also still needs to develop. They’re clearly developing it in specific directions, not all of which we like, with the enemy spam and power creep. There’s huge risk in tryin to make major change to fix it. They need to start thinking of side-grades to the game rather than constantly upping the anty or trying to revert it all back to an older style.
It’s also because it’s more fair now, giving Scum more risk which he needed on this context
Not really?
Like, Current Desperado STILL breaks what “Darktide” is about, but I’m a lot more okay with how it is right now simply because it remains as unique (waaaaaaay more ranged gameplay), but with some risk now on it (melee stuff), which forces them to have good management, or good skills to generate the ammo
I don’t understand why Desperado is suddendly being called “not unique anymore”, even though it is VASTLY different compared to how I’d play literally anything else at all
It’s unique, it’s fun, it’s STRONG AF, isn’t that what we both want?
I mean we agree with what the issue is overall, I think it’s up to FS to fix that
This is such a whoosh moment that I don’t even know how to explain it to you. It’s clear you really like to argue, and I don’t think you are interested or able to understand my point of view.
They should just deliver better balanced content instead of rug pulling. Obviously it was turbo jank, made even worse by the scum kit letting you survive off getting shot/shooting and outrunning everything. Its sort of like when they had no clue what to do with Sister of Thorn in Vermintide 2 and heavily overhauled it months later to where it barely resembles the alpha build.
Yeah, the class only functions because it’s overstatted. That needs to be fixed before they can actually deliver on the class fantasy. I just hope they make it more interesting rather than less.
Just rotate your cd stim and your ult one after another, there is a small window where you’ll have to think about ammo depending on the gun.
Eh, I just play recon las now.
Yeah, Recon Las Vet is the “balanced shooter class” that people think HS should be, but then HS is just “that, but with bullet guns instead of laser guns”.
a genre I never touched with a tenpole and even quake champions I played very sparingly due to the very fact characters didn’t have the exact same starting prerequisites compared to quake live for example.
the reason I deal with people inside any environment, be it pvp or pve is comparison and growth.
aint out there to socialize or enjoy the view, in a fast paced game dopamine gets rewarded for frantic action and good performance.
the moment I see someone “getting more for doing less” that social contract, the base on why I bother with multiplayer in the first place, goes poof
I aint here to cheer on rando-joe while he hogs the killfeed, I want a close race and beat my head around what the other guy did “better”, tweak my loadout if necessary and go into the next match with a more aggressive approach to come out on top next time.
that’s what keeps the gameplay fresh, maps stay the same, enemy types and weaponry to counter just as much.
the only changing factor is how other people mess with the engagements and create new situations each time.
those being created out of over the top performing stuff one itself can’t recreate on a whim with a different character/loadout isn’t “fun”, it’s frustrating.
a bit meaner than intended there’s a saying to “not giving someone the black from under the fingernails”, still anything that exceeds the normal “median” output should be taken by superior performance through mechanical skills, not what a character brings on a spreadsheet
As someone who plays Dota 2 on a daily basis (only Kunkka or Doom if Kunkka is banned), I can tell you that solo queue is similar to playing Darktide; you essentially play a solo game.
If you are very good at MoBAs, you can play and build your character in a way that elevates lyour entire team by winning lanes for them and etc. and propels the team to a win, but the win/loss ratio is usually 50/50 in a MoBA (if you’re a good player).
Throwing a curveball back to Darktide: my main gripe about Darktide is that it is too much of a solo game.
I wish there was more teamwork through synchronization of skills, playstyles, and class selection.
I’m not a fan of playing my Scum or Vet and having to ALWAYS choose a loadout that includes anti-carapace, anti-special, and anti-horde.
Every KARKING round feel the same because the game/classes lack variation/are too homogenized, and the balance is so bad (Fatshark want up!) that if I spam my Arbites (boring class), I’d have a 90% victory rate in AM because Arbites are nearly unkillable.
I think there is a pretty good chance Fatshark might do something about crushers, Reginald made a video about it and when he he makes a video about something changes usually follows.
I thought the same as I was first reading the post, BUT:
Facts.
A better solution perhaps? Under no circumstances should something as strong as Needle Pistol + Chem Build get to benefit from unlimited ammo. I get the annoyance of teammates blasting away at hordes continually in a mixed combat game - because I enjoy melee Darktide more than ranged, but…
I thought the melee requirement for Pickpocket was a good change too but chem melee build + Needle pistol is just so strong. It’s ironic because the Pickpocket nerf was mostly called for because of Needle Pistol.
This isn’t true tho