and they also nerf it every time 
i wonder why…
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Not every melee and not every enemy, especially in Havoc, but yes, maybe. The nerf is overall not a big deal. I’ve played post-nerf Desperado in Havoc 40 a few times and to me personally it’s not an absolute dealbreaker.
But the thing is… It’s not about the power, it’s about the principle. This nerf leaves a bad taste in your mouth, because Fatshark sold the class and only nerfed this playstyle when sales plateued.
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fatshark refusing to nerf all the outlier op weapons for years which is causing the balance of the game to be sh*t has left a bad taste in my mouth
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Despite your attempt at a smart reply, I didn’t say it’s impossible or particularly difficult to do, just a bit clunky when you focus the build mostly on ranged. There’s also the team in the way likely gunning for the same elites as the Hive Scum. I don’t find it impossible, just clunky.
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yeah and i play with it too, and its literally not clunky at all, you have to melee an enemy in a game about meleeing enemies, oh well guess its time to stop playing the game entirely and play something else
but not before making 100+ forum posts and also review bombing the game because the devs took away my fun gamebreakingly op toy
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I don’t care about review bombs because I didn’t partake and I didn’t even play the class before the change was made, I bought it after. It is clunkier because you don’t usually invest in many melee talents at all and the rest of the team has an advantage at killing elites with whatever they are using.
My idea is to keep the Hive Scum shooting, but in a way that doesn’t allow the DPS to be used to the maximum extent, more calculated approach, but still ranged. The talent is still strong as it is, I do not call it weak and I won’t stop playing the game, not sure where you saw me say that. Or are you just padding the amount of replies you make?
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you didnt specifically, just a general statement regarding all the forums posts popping up complaining about nerfs and all the reviewbombing that happens every single time something gets nerfed
this game cant get to a good balanced state because whiny crybabies start throwing their temper tantrums whenever they read the word nerf and reviewbomb the game
the game NEEDS nerfs… players NEED nerfs… hell even the enemies need some nerfs and some buffs here and there, stuff is supposed to change over time, some stuff gets buffed some gets nerfed, its a balance, but its a balance that just cant be found because as soon at fatshark says “heres a small dueling sword and plasma gun nerf” nope can’t have that, ‘who would dare try to balance the weapons i exclusively use because of how powerful they are compared to all other weapons’.
Do you see the issue here? things need nerfed, fatshark cant nerf because reviewbombs, so only buffs allowed, but now players too strong game isnt challenging, players complain saying game too easy, ok well make a new gamemode that is challenging, players complain say too hard and players need buffs, alright buff players but also buff enemies to counteract that, players complain about enemy buffs…
this will literally continue until we have groups of 20 crushers each with rotten armor base stats and a total hp of 10k+ on auric, and yet… people will still be complaining about player power nerfs
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I mean I think it can be changed, I don’t see the reviews bombs as such a big problem as it’s being made out to be, objectively speaking. If Fatshark wanted to actually change things, they could do it and power through the negative reviews. This happened with many other games in the past and things eventually turned out ok.
But leaving our disagreement on the balance of this talent aside, and balance in general, we should hold Fatshark accountable too. I think reviews are just an excuse they are hiding behind, IF they actually wanted to change things.
I said it above, but if the goal of the game is to focus on tides of enemies, the meta as it is is the community’s logical response to that. If Fatshark wants to make the game more strategic and make more abilities and weapons be a viable pick, they need to also accompany these nerfs with changes to the enemies.
Those changes aren’t coming, I think we can both agree on that. As it stands it’s mostly some nerfs, some buffs and the enemies staying the same. That’s why many are against the nerfs too. We need to see both nerfs to players AND adjustments to the groups of enemies at once.
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I have been saying this since day 1
Nimble + Jittery is a very easy to see issue
You know what the difference between Slayer (VT2) and Rampage scum is? Yes, Slayer is not even close as safe as Rampage scum is
Jittery should be drastically reduced from 40% to 20% tops (you can remove the stamina requirement to compensate, I think that mechanic is silly in the first place)
Nimble speed should be reduced to 15% tops, and the dodge linger bonus should only be +0.1s instead of +0.15s
I didn’t try Dodge Rat as much so I won’t mention it yet but it looks as powerful as current Nimble blegh
Rampage itself should have some of it’s exhaustion back, it was a good mechanic but the value was simply too high originally. So add some of the exhaustion but not 100% stamina drain once it’s over
Lastly the big elephant in the room regarding Rampage overperformance is Hyper-Violence. Buff the % if needed from 25 to 35 overkill BUT DON’T LET IT PROC FROM HORDE PLEASE. A guy literally 3 shot a Plague Ogryn with LIGHT ATTACKS because of the huge amount of Hyper-Violence damage buff on a big horde
But it’s not a matter of “just don’t play it”
I equip the big heretic killer aka Evis sword, run towards a horde but unless I’m playing H40 with Moebian 21st, the Scum already shot it down
Oh look, 7 ragers coming for us, this will be a fun batt- and they’re dead because gun scum
I mean for the most part you shouldn’t really be “hunting” them, you should take those coming for you
If you think that’s not possible, pop Desperado and run deep into enemy fire to garantee 1 melee kill at the very least
It defenitely is something you will have to adapt your positioning to compensate for, but that’s a good thing not a bad thing
“Shoot for a few seconds” feels heavily reductive tbh, a single kill for me got me enough ammo for 2 magazines on Vraks, that is not a “few seconds”
100% correct
Tho Chem Scum runs into the same limitation as Desperado you mentioned before, getting the melee kill is not as easy
My main issue is that by doing this, Stimm Supply is now dead for 99% of players since stimm supply best keystone is under the 5 billion toxin talents
Funnily the ammo pouch idea is actually a buff, not a nerf to the close range idea
Why? Since the scum can now kill 2 targets, use 1 bag to recover and leave the other there for when you run out of ammo after that. You can essentially keep ammo on the floor instead of wasting part of the 20% on recover
I’d say going into melee is more danger than staying close blasting their face tbh pff
I personally like current pickpocket, it’s fun and engaging
I didn’t try this talent yet but I can see it currently being an issue yeah
Holy truth nuke
I’m ngl I kinda hate how players became too attached to perma shooting
Had the class released with current pickpocket, we wouldn’t be having these discussions 
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How about instead of focusing on the nerf/buff circle jerk this time, we just agree that a straight up bait and switch on DLC is a bad precedent?
I don’t own Hive Scum and it made me quit the game on release, so I am not defending it from a design or game health perspective.
But, let’s say this gloriously awaited Admech class comes out with a signature trait that tons of players buy it specifically for and then that’s removed for balance later, won’t you want people in your corner instead of posting pictures of crying babies at you? I know I would.
Attempts like OP to get the identity back with actual balance tradeoffs should be lauded and approached with a genuine attitude, not this dismissive, step-on-me-daddy-FS crap.
I hate hive scum, legitimately. I hate anti-consumer shite more.
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Just ignore these guys atp they’re clearly children
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personally I fear the game is “too far gone”, at least it’d need another exodus back to 1-2k players to get a “clean slate”.
but I was naive enough to take both dlc as a fresh approach under “leveled conditions”.
I mean first few days of honeymoon when all talents feel fresh and you don’t know the ins and outs of the class yet, it’s dawning only after that some stuff might not be in line or borderline op even.
that’s when I dropped arbites for it was having castigator among other broken stuff and that’s when I shelved scum after topping dps charts like it wasnt even funny anymore.
when a class takes off the edge of what it means “outperform through personal means”, I dont play that class, period.
there’s no “enjoyment” in the leveling process for one had done it ad nausea, it’s only the potential at the final stages of the game, whether it gives me a good dopamine rush while keeping me on my toes and sweating.
there’s a hunch of op-ness, I won’t touch it for the time be, as I don’t use any talents on my main that fall under that category.
do I regret the purchase? hell naw, it was my choice giving it a spin, not getting my money back walking out on a bad movie either.
worth a shot, lost some bucks, no big deal.
chances are some day it’s worth again dusting it off and taking it for a spin when actual effort needs to be put to get results, the class aint going nowhere in the meantime.
now this is just an example of not being “pissed” cause something got nerfed, there was no “identity” in the first place, some pixels move faster other hit harder, admech aint my cup of tea cause why play scrawny robot dude when you can have ruuuuuuehl arms? 
darktide for me is quake 40k, the protagonist a skin of which we had dozens back in the day and underneath everyone did the same stuff with the same weapons.
today’s talents/blessings and what have you number games aint of my concern anyhow, I just want to play a balanced game if it comes dealing with other people, as everyone did the same “dps” when playing quake coop way back when.
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Question
Where in the Steam page, or announcement, said Hive Scum will have infinite ammo?
Because all they said was “we want a class that shoots at close range”
You can still do that, pretty much with no issues
Literally NO ONE bought the class because the page told them they’ll have infinite ammo, but because they saw a youtuber play with it and notice the infinite ammo and never needing to engage in melee
This is just entitlement, the class fantasy is still there, playing with desperado builds will still allow you to shoot 90% of the Match (even more I’d say)
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Like I’d completely understand if they removed Pickpocket, and forced Scum to only fire during Desperado
But that’s not the case at all!!! You can still shoot outside of Desperado and regen ammo as well
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Thing is they didn’t actually lose their identity, it’s still the most ammo efficient range build in the game and ammo isn’t a problem at all.
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i played desperado scum to in order to get my penances and drip, but i’m more of a melee guy.
it frustrates me every time i play ogryn or zealot and charge at a group of enemies, and they fall dead from a gun scum’s hail of bullets when i reach them. i know the scum is trying to help (or get a high score, but idgaf about that), but it invalidates my charge, leaving me with no enemies to refresh my toughness and ability regeneration. so i think it’s a healthy change to force gun scum into a bit of melee to refresh their boolets, rather than letting them go ratata at safe distance without a break.
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No replies at all would be better than replies in spirit of Khorne Dawg’s first post here, and I always like their posts, even when I don’t fully agree.
Let people voice their opinions without diminishing them, “gramps”.
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Forum people feel very justified calling feedback by other people “crying” or “bait” or something else unprompted, and despite it clearly being rude and not fair at all, they give each other a pass at acting like that, since they share some opinions. It’s only “not okay” to act like this when you’re on the opposite side of the discussion, suddenly everyone calls you out on it.
Otherwise agree with your post, and the fact that nobody liked your post speaks volumes.
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Ranged combat was never designed to be viable as a primary way of engaging with the game, and I think that’s very apparent by the fact that hive scum gets a bunch of talents that ignore or circumvent fundamental game mechanics to prop up the class fantasy like auto dodging all hits on crit, better faster farther dodges, functionally infinite ammo etc. I do like the idea of maintaining classes core identities, but I feel like the identity in question will either be too strong or watered down regardless of changes made just by how ranged combat was always meant to be secondary to melee.
I’m all for actually balancing the game and giving every class and weapon a niche but as it is both DLC classes just encroach on the niches of existing classes. If anything, I’d want scum and arbites to be reworked to be functionally unique instead of trying to dance around the fact that they are just easier better versions of existing characters (though I won’t hold my breath I’m sure the next new class will be just a better psyker or something).
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