Instead we have the issue where grenades thrown will occasionally not work at all.
Multiple times I’ve experienced throwing the ogryn frag grenade and nothing happening, same with zealot and veteran.
1 Like
Fatshark needs to make this guy a tester before the next ogryn rework
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as long as they don’t use the last playtesters, who love heresy mode.
3 Likes
To be fair, it doesn’t seem like ANY of the other playtesters actually really like Ogryn or play him a lot. I’ve been checking around playtester streams, videos, even on the discord, and it seems that most of them just don’t really play him on principle. Mostly evident via how their Ogryns have very low levels. I saw one whose Ogryn wasn’t even 30. I saw some who said that they won’t play Ogryn, period. Now I’m not sure how representative that is, maybe none of the Ogryn playtesters actually use social media and as such this is completely off, I’m just going by what is available public info.
It’s a bit unfair to pin the blame for class balance onto one person when he’s one of the very few who seem to even really try. Quantity of feedback does matter a lot too, for balancing. I’m not saying to blame other playtesters for not testing for a class they don’t enjoy either.
Basically I’m saying I’d sooner blame Fatshark for not getting a couple level 3000 ogryn pros into playtests, which seems to be underrepresented.
4 Likes
I don’t want to hop on any playtester hate meme, but I do wonder and worry if some of the bad takes about ogryn I’ve seen over the years comes from info that’s just not easy to interpet.
Queso in point, this very old DPS chart
This chart, for a little bit, was proof the ripper gun had as much dps as a bolter. This is pre-ammo buff mk v.
There was a hot minute after the ammo buff that some guys were saying the mk v was op, too.
But like, how would you get bolter performance out of ripper, ever? Best I could do is burn/bleed PBB against a boss now many patches later. Best i could see in people’s streams involved a lot of animation canceling in order to not waste ripper shots on burst fire, genuine hard work normal unsweaty players would never, ever do. Those people use the new stubber now and are probably never going back to the mk v.
I guess this is a plea for them to figure out what OP even means in the game as it is now before a dev looks at a months’ old feedback where someone said kickback is as strong as plasma gun. Cuz you know that’s coming.
Edit: apologies for the rambling post that took a huge leap from subject A to Subject B, but it’s kinda tough nailing down all of the little steps inbetween that I’ve seen, watching streams of completely normal games where the end scorescreen mod has crazy bloated numbers and people being like “Tell me how Ogryn isn’t OP?” while not really connecting concepts that they’re spreading tons of damage to everything while not doing as much as they think. Ex: if you bull rush an infinity amount of guys and they all took 50 bleed damage, you dealt infinity * 50 but that’s not enough to kill any individual dude in this game.
7 Likes
Reading this spreadsheet kind of wild because that’s such a lacking way to compare weapons for sure.
I wouldn’t say they need a nerf or a buff. The MK5 is comparable in special killing prowess to a bolt pistol with a worse reload and a far harder time aiming, especially followup shots (so still very very good and probably Ogryns best ranged wep along with the heavy stubbers to be clear). The MK2 is distinctly the hardest to use one for anything but full-on-magdump purposes because of the pellet attributes yet if you gave the spreadsheet any heed it’s just OP. It’s only really strong if you put flechettes and fire on it as you mentioned.
So yeah
It’s the delivery method that keeps them balanced, it’s not like you’re hitting all your pellets on something at all times or something and the spreadsheet seems to not consider that. Not to mention this sheet ignores blessings, breakpoints, cleave, which is incredibly important
If this is the sort of thought into Ogryn balancing then I’m not surprised he’s got balance problems. If this is actually used for balance purposes it reaffirms that it seems like nobody feels like playing him so they just engage with him on a numbers level instead.
5 Likes
What a strange spreadsheet. It doesn’t account for cleave at all from what I can see? I’d need a legend to make better sense of it but judging the plasma gun comparison alone this sheet would tell you that akshually the plasma charge shot is better, which its obviously not. This is why, for all its flaws, I use my Paul Harrel inspired meat targets on an active range with active targets. When you punch through like half the walkers per shot with Plasma the math shakes out a little different.
Anyway I just wanted to drop in and say that I am keeping an eye on the Ogryn buff threads here and other places to see what people come up with and want most and also just playing a lot of Ogryn. He’s rapidly becoming my favorite class on Havoc 40 even if he’s a little on the weak side.
Not to go the wrong way, because stagger IS extremely important, but someone in my comments suggested that weapon special uppercuts should be able to decapitate weaker heretics instead of just stagger them and I think that would be great.
7 Likes
Mk5 had one of the best vet interactions too, you could run ammo stash and get +2 every survivalist proc. So you could basically main the weapon getting a magazine back for every 11 procs, a magazine dump into shotgunners would go ammo positive. But with that interaction gone and another magazine removed for some reason the Ripper is actually really hard to make good on that damage. That’s the main reason you have to swap mid-firing, because the spread reset is so long. I would love to see an overhaul for these guns where you could not-waste ammo without flipping the brace and having specifically Mk2 (because Mk5 fires 2 rounds before full auto on the brace, though its brace performance is also trash and should be looked at). No weapon should have a terrible function to promote the use of another variant, that’s a complete cop out failure Fat Shark.
And there’s similar arguments being used to the Rumbler being broken, even though the entire rest of the time it can’t drop grenades straight into massive clumps of enemies it is a pretty bad weapon and almost -range slot most encounters, unable to do anything quickly about specialists or shooters spread out.
4 Likes
It seems that you can’t edit your post after some time has passed!? So I wrote this as a comment instead.
December 21, 2024 - Additional Thoughts
First of all, I want to thank everyone for the unexpected amount of interest in my thoughts. Truly, thank you so much (__).
Now, I can’t hold it in anymore!!! But even if I can’t hold it in, there’s nothing I can do, right? T^T
So, I’d like to at least share my grievances about the issues I’ve encountered with Ogryn during my gameplay.
I’m not great at crunching numbers or analyzing stats, so this feedback is purely based on my personal experiences while playing.
- Feel No Pain -
“Feel No Pain” (FP) has been one of my least favorite Keystone skills ever since the skill tree was revamped.
As you all know, Darktide has a toughness system. When your toughness is depleted, your health starts to take damage.
For Ogryn, you’ll almost always pick the two skills that restore toughness when hitting multiple enemies or a single target.
How well you manage to consistently replenish toughness and avoid health damage directly affects Ogryn’s survivability.
Additionally, as with any game, eliminating enemies that can attack you is a key strategy for survival.
With Heavy Hitter (HH), you gain increased attack speed, which allows you to recover toughness more quickly while also dealing higher damage and killing enemies faster.
In contrast, FP provides toughness damage reduction, but it doesn’t perform well enough to replace HH.
With FP, you’re forced to hit enemies with very slow attack speeds to regain toughness, and its benefits don’t compensate for the drawback of slow attacks.
The damage is also lower, which means it takes much longer to eliminate enemies.
If you want to use blessings that replenish toughness with light attacks, you’ll quickly realize how ineffective they are due to the slow attack speed, weak damage, low cleave, and low stagger.
To make matters worse, Ogryn weapons don’t really offer a way to hit multiple heretics effectively with light attacks.
On top of that, FP stacks are quickly reduced to zero against ranged attacks, leaving you feeling completely powerless.
We all know how much gunfire comes your way in this game, right? 
Trying to recover stacks with pushes? Sure, you can use a shield (the only fast-pushing weapon) efficiently, but then you’re stuck with a shield. The idea of having to push ten times with a shield just to recover stacks is downright laughable—and not easy either, haha.
Would it be possible to replace FP with a Keystone that offers a different playstyle?
I’ve thought of ways to buff FP (e.g., improving cleave, stagger, or making Ogryn tougher the longer he fights), but ultimately, I feel more drawn to the idea of exploring a fun new playstyle for Ogryn, even if it’s not particularly strong. 
I’ll write about the issues with Gungryn next time 
1 Like
I like the idea of FNP making the Ogryn tougher in Ogryn-y ways. Buffed stagger and pushes could be good. A Barge or Trample ability from VT2 would be fun. Tossing off a dog or net on some long CD, or at a real cost, might be good. How about toughness or some other reward for blocking?
2 Likes
Theres actually an internal cooldown on losing stacks of about 1 second so even in a havoc gunline situation you can only lose them so fast.
4 Likes
Is that so? Haha
Whenever I played, the stacks always seemed to disappear way too quickly.
Maybe I just wasn’t managing them properly! 
1 Like
It would be great to have a way to escape on his own!
December 28, 2024 - Additional Thoughts
Last time, I shared my thoughts about Feel No Pain (FP).
This time, I’ll talk about GunGryn.
GunGryn
GunGryn has improved somewhat after the recent buff patch.
However, it’s still not enough to make it a better choice than Heavy Hitter (HH).
GunGryn is, quite literally, a character focused on shooting—a relentless, merciless bullet storm.
But in actual gameplay, it often feels tedious and exhausting.
Below are the main issues I’ve identified:
Key Issues
- Severe ammo consumption limits your freedom to shoot at will.
- You’re forced to rely on melee weapons, which reduces fun and significantly increases fatigue.
3.(Except when teammates generously share all their ammo—lol. I personally give all my ammo to GunGryn players when I see them, just to let them have fun!)* - GunGryn-related skills don’t feel impactful.
5.(Except when using the Ultimate ability.)* - **The skill tree is too focused on Achlys Twin-Linked Stubber.
- The bug with “Soften Them Up” not applying to ranged weapons still hasn’t been fixed. Why has this been ignored for over a year, Fatshark? -_-+
Detailed Breakdown
1. Ammo Consumption
The current Keystone is frustrating because it’s overly reliant on RNG with low success rates.
While Darktide is a cooperative game and ammo pickups are available, GunGryn doesn’t feel powerful or rewarding enough to justify the trade-offs. It’s just not fun or satisfying to play.
Take the most commonly used weapon, Achlys Stubber, for example. Without the Ultimate ability, it takes an excessive amount of ammo to kill heretics.
This issue is worsened by the lack of efficient ammo-replenishment mechanics.
(Also, why is Achlys Stubber the only viable Stubber, Fatshark? T^T)
If GunGryn’s Keystone had a perk like “No ammo consumption for a few seconds after killing an Elite or Special,” it would already be a big improvement over the current system.
2. Forced Melee Reliance
Due to the ammo issues mentioned above, you’re often forced into melee combat, which is highly unappealing.
To make melee combat somewhat viable, you have to spec into Heavy Hitter (HH). Without it, melee combat becomes unbearably weak, exposing all of Ogryn’s inherent drawbacks:
- Poor weapon and skill balance
- Heavy reliance on Bleed damage
- Low cleave and damage output (except for the pickaxe)
Without enough cleave and damage, you end up hitting enemies endlessly, only to take a few hits yourself, resulting in a constant cycle of losing health.
This is why GunGryn players tend to die much more frequently than HH Ogryn players.
3. Lack of Impactful Skills
Even when investing in GunGryn-related skills, the damage output doesn’t feel significant.
Is it because Achlys Stubber has the lowest damage?
Or maybe because of Coward Culling?
Or the bug with “Soften Them Up” not applying to ranged weapons?
Whatever the reason, GunGryn feels underwhelming and lacks excitement.
4. Stubber-Centric Skills
Many skills in the GunGryn tree are overly focused on Stubber weapons, leaving other ranged weapons behind.
- Steady Grip: Only useful for Stubbers since it activates when holding RMB with a ranged weapon.
- Coward Culling: Also difficult to utilize effectively outside of Stubbers.
- Massacre: Increases critical hit chance—does this work well with Rumbler or Kickback? Probably just Stubbers again.
- Mobile Emplacement: Like Steady Grip, it works exclusively with Stubbers.
- Burst Limiter Override: No explanation needed. Haha.
5. The “Soften Them Up” Bug
“Soften Them Up” still doesn’t apply to ranged weapons. While I understand that Ogryn isn’t Fatshark’s main focus, could you at least fix this bug quickly?
I’m assuming it’ll take another 1–2 years for a patch, but this is an urgent issue that needs immediate attention. 
Additional Notes
I understand that other classes also face their own issues, such as:
- Veterans being stuck using VOC exclusively.
- Zealots suffering from broken weapon balance for their exclusive weapons.
- Psykers lacking enough exclusive Staff .
However, I believe Ogryn’s problems are the most severe.
Lastly, Fatshark
Could you please consider implementing an overall weapon balance patch?
We’re constantly using the same few weapons over and over again.
If you could rebalance the currently unused weapons to make them viable, it would, in itself, provide more variety and enjoyment for players.
6 Likes
I feel like talents numerical stats changes actually have little impact on feeling of his gameplay. He has no unique abilities except pulling aggro, playstyles and this is the reason why its is boring.
I’ll explain how I would like to see the solution through an example.
Current No pushover implementation increases stagger power by +250% for push every 8 second. I think it would be better if this talent could push even monstrosities regardless of whether they are green or not and had longer cooldown that could be reduced by blocking enemy attacks.
The reworked talent has:
- unique ability to consistently control boss which no other class can do
- specific playstyle - blocking attacks becomes more preferable than dodging
- and reward for the player performing certain action
I think the ogryn needs more talents that meet these criteria.
And a few more thoughts:
It would be great if gungryn bullets had some interesting side effect, for example, ricocheting to the nearest elite on critical weakspot hit. Right now I don’t see the point in choosing path from Unstoppable Momentum to keystone just for the extra ≈20% crit chance, even for new stubbers.
Box with grenades need upgrades. The left and right paths of tree specialize in different things and are mutually exclusive, so it makes sense to make the middle grenade as configurable as possible. The upgrades may add extra krak, smoke or incendiary to the box.
The current ones look like a downgrade zealot’s flashbangs - there are twice as few of them and ineffective for anything other than stun and suppression
2 Likes
Being able to push even Monstrousities sounds great!
However, since the “blocking” mechanic is rarely used during gameplay, another approach might work better.
For example, the cooldown could decrease the more you stagger enemies!
This is also a good idea.
I agree that blocking isn’t very useful mechanics in this game, so I suggested the talent that makes its way more rewarding. It can work like the Offensive Defence blessing, but instead of power it will provide the noticeable cooldown reduction for empowered push.
The better you manage your stamina and the more you block attacks, the better control you have. Of course, this alone won’t be enough to make bullgryn subclass more block-oriented than dodge-oriented.
But this was just an example that different classes should have some of their own distinctive gameplay features. Currently the ogryn’s talent tree is bloated with simple and uninteresting nodes that don’t provide any new opportunities
1 Like
I bet fat shark will read your post and nerf ogryn even more.
I also consider deleting my ogryn or just never play it ever again, i play all 4 classes, but now i no longer feel like doing so, with recent buffs to gunners and how they work in havoc, it’s become nearly unplayable, i need to put so much effort in to playing as ogryn, it’s like constant farming of some horrible penance on other classes, when i need to use skills that are bad.
Weapons really is limited, shield, pickaxe, at least all 3 mk’s are viable, but not every time, i use one of the clubs also, but it’s so much worse, i tried shovels and cleaver, these are just bad. Same with ranged weapons, i only use kickback, i tried new gun, but it’s unfit for gunlugger ogryn and on other builds it does what kickback do, only worse, because it’s slower to use.
Ogryn needs:
- Speed equal or higher than zealots, a) Canonically ogryn’s really fast b) More than 5 decades fastest atheltes all have height higher 1.80m (6 ft), because lenght thier steps is already bigger, than that of shorther athletes. Also ogryns come from death worlds with high gravity, thuse being on low gravity planets, make them really strong not only hands, but in legs too.
- Total immunity to dogs, maybe except green ones, no talents needed. Maybe add like some minigame when you need to preass E or some other button fast to throw away dogs.
- Total immunity to trash drag gunners and poxwalkers, less damage from regular scab gunners, but not immunity since they use las weapons. Ogryns canonically have a skin hard enough to take small caliber bullets.
- Make fast attacks viable, i have a solution for it, make fast attack count as strong, leave their damage still smaller, but give effects of talent’s that give ogryn toughness to them too.
- Need various buffs to middle tree.
3 Likes
one can take the “no pushover” node for 250% stagger and ram monstrosities off bridges using charge (not snails though)
