bullcrap, you can’t find a team that takes it slow because you will always have at least one rusher. they’re not “hugely” effective they’re just not constantly breaking up because of the zealot brainrot.
I really do not must do.
Don’t know why you mention this.
Of course it impacts some people and their builds. That’s the point.
Why would they change the ammo economy, if their goal was to not have it impact anyone?
Do you think that someone putting a few talent points into ranged weapon bonuses, should mean that they no longer have to worry about ammo at all?
It appears to me, that those two things are entirely different.
Me caring about the overall state of the game’s balance, does not require me to care about how you personally choose to play the game.
I don’t know what kind of parties you play with, but i have not seen a single case of a group having to “very carefully manage” their ammo.
You can shoot a crazy amount. You just might run low, if you shoot at absolutely everything and do not pick up a whole lot of ammo.
If you play a maelstrom, where you shoot every extra boss that spawns, you might run low, even if you do pick up a decent amount of ammo. Don’t spend all of your ammo on bosses then.
Might as well complain about not having an infinite reserve of grenades at your hand.
I am not saying that ammo should be a ressource that has to be “very carefully managed”.
I am saying that ammo has to be managed to a degree, and that it is fine as it is.
This is hilarious. If you have to think about ammo at all, there should be no talent branch in the game, that focuses on boosting ranged weapons? It is not like picking those talents will result in your melee weapon being useless.
How do you think everyone played before the aura nerf, when ever there was no veteran on the team? You think everyone quit and rejoined a new lobby until there was an ammo dispenser on the team?
And now that the ammo dispenser got nerfed, the gun users are no longer able to enjoy the game?
Again, me not caring how you personally choose to engage with the options that the game offers, does not mean that i do not care about game balance.
Next time, try finishing your thought, before you post.
Spending a bunch of talent points to boost your ranged damage, does not mean that you should ignore the existence of your melee weapon.
Same thing goes the other way around.
The game gives you tools. Use them.
Focusing one one thing, does not require you to give up the other, so do not act as if it does.
If someone was choosing to play melee only, i would laugh at them, if they started complaining about having issues that are caused by them deliberately ignoring the existence of their ranged weapon.
Was that meaningful enough?
I certainly put in more effort, than your post deserved.
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Look, I’d love to see the level 800+ knife zealot running ahead a whole room/area without any los to get dogged, but it doesn’t happen, and if it does happen (which is super rare) he just quits and someone else will come.
My average Maelstrom run is below 30 minutes and STGAuric is around 20-24.
There isn’t really a downside for going quickly, aside from having more boss spawns. There is nothing that can properly slow you down (like IDK shooters that pose a threat? Yeah they doesn’t exist anymore) You go slow there is more opportunity to make mistakes.
Even for a ranged build taking it slow can be a huge detriment, since you are burning more ammo.
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Sarcasm aside?
What VT2 and Darktide receive is incomparable, unless you don’t know what even sarcasm is.
I feel like you guys are alluding to the same thing, but are talking past each other.
Bad players make the current state of survivalist miserable for the whole team.
A good team would cover you while you scavenge a bit. And then ammo would not be an issue at all.
In short, if you’re pugging the survivalist nerf hits you really hard on auric+ but if you’ve a solid consistent team, you probably feel a bit more crunched, but not much.
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You perfectly described my experience, playing ranged Vet build.
You can get a team where you are the only one who takes pickups and it can be fine, or where teammates balance the ammo and scavenge for each other tagging for the ones who need it, but it’s the minority of games in pugs.
To add to the issue having highly skilled teammates doesn’t mean they’ll be good teamplayers on the ammo front sadly.
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Stealing this for The Book.
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You’ve transcended your mortal existence and have become a concept, an idea - no, an ideal.
For you are…
Close range bug dude
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Welll if you think about it a higher difficulty is indeed meant to be more difficult. Technically all your weapons scale back for all difficulties because with each one your same wep takes more swings to deal with the average engagement. I’d say thats fundamentally intended and good for the game because if everything had the same effectiveness on aurics then why would it be more difficult? Why wouldn’t your ammo economy be worse on the highest difficulty?
Rather isn’t it an issue if things make you MORE POWERFUL the more difficult the gamemode is supposed to be? That would achieve the exact opposite of what the difficulty increase was trying to do. That’s why survivalist got the change it got. (And it’s why I hope all the “CDR on elite/special kill” talents get the same change)
Sometimes I feel like we’re forgetting the fundamentals here
Arguably there’s a pretty significant difference between ‘your weapons do less damage at higher difficulty’ and a situation where ‘your preferred way of playing, ranged, is less and less allowed at higher difficulty’.
I’m of the opinion that they either need to embrace that ranged is supposed to be a playstyle, and give ammo regen to all classes with a clear ranged path (which is all except Zealot, afaik), OR they need to come out and clearly say that actually, please ignore all those ranged paths in the talent trees, the game isn’t meant to be played that way.
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There’s nuance to it but I think that allowing someone to play a 100% ranged style is infact antithetical to the idea of actual difficulty in the game since there isn’t actually much you can’t just blast. Basically put simply: almost all the difficulty in this game is in target prioritizing and handling things in melee inbetween. Allowing you to 100% ranged would mean you could just take position and blast and ignore both. Not exactly conductive to building a challenge for the player.
Putting in a hard limiter in the form of ammo econ that forces you to take risks by routing to ammo boxes in corners of the map, or forces you to just decide “I can save some ammo here and melee instead” is good design in my opinion and forces you to engage with the actual difficult parts of the game more.
When it comes to playing 80/20 you can totally still do it and I reject the complaint to be honest. If there’s a zealot wasting ammo in your game then he’s the issue, not the game design. It’d be like complaining about someone walking up to a med station with a grimoire and instantly hitting it 4 times to remove all the charges. If someone’s griefing without being explicitly encouraged to by game balance, then that’s really falling a bit outside of game balance discussions.
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Ammo economy is automatically worse at higher difficulty.
More high value targets to shoot at.
More shots required per target.
This already means that you use more ammo.
But now that you have a cooldown on scavenger, you additionally get back less ammo.
So it is true, that scavenger scales backward, while probably all other talents either get better, or remain on the same level of usefullness at higher difficulty.
I am almost certain that this is inconsistent with how you view basically everything else in the game.
Anything that triggers on kill, or has to be kept up via hits/kills, would have to be nerfed by your logic, because those things are easier to keep up at higher difficulty, since more enemies are around, and there is less downtime.
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I strongly agree with this statement and I think Darktide has way too many procs like that which completely trivialize higher difficulties, and they’re the reason the game was harder back in 2022 when damnation was the highest difficulty and only spawned like 5 crushers per match.
Ogryn gameplay for example has turned completely braindead now that you just get near 100% uptime on a 10% rending buff. It used to be 30%. They keep nerfing it but it’s still completely braindead gameplay because even with just 10% rending you can mostly ignore carapace issues and just bonk em with your knife 4 times and they die to bleed. Meanwhile you get all the beenfits of having a really good horde clear weapon.
Well, i hope that FS disagree with you and will not make any such change.
Or maybe it has something to do with you having a year of experience, that you did not have a year ago.
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It’s not a particularly compelling thing to argue that ranged is somehow safer than melee. I don’t think that’s true, generally speaking.
While I personally wouldn’t want people to shoot literally 100% of the time, I don’t see any particularly compelling reasons for why people shouldn’t be allowed to, if that’s how they like to play. The only reasons would be personal taste, really.
I do think, given the history of FS and the vast complexity of different ammo econ on different weapons, that they would struggle to balance ranged/melee into 70/30 or what have you just based on pickups. And that’s even before you get into pickups not being guaranteed at all in solo quickplay.
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FS agrees with me heavily because they indeed nerfed the hell out of the ogryn talent I mentioned 3 seperate times. They see the issue but they’re clumsy about fixing it
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But they did not nerf everything else a bunch of times.
Saying that they heavily agree with you, based on their treatment of <1% of the things that would be related, is a bit of a reach.
You are attacking enemies from a distance at which they can not attack you.
Of course it is safer. Why would you even claim that it is not?
I completely reject that notion. If a game allows griefing in way that can destroy your entire build/playstyle, that’s a game design problem. In the same way that someone can ruin a mission by never entering the taxi at the end. That’s a game design problem.
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Well they haven’t exactly been dropping many balance changes since patch 13 which is the main culprit of giving players way way way too much power. Infact one of the biggest balance patches following p13 buffed the absolute hell out of every enemy and made them more numerous. The few changes they did make were mostly nerfs, with the occasional buff to psyker. Don’t ask me why that is. Probably saw stats of psykers sucking or something
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