DLC Boss(es)

Sorry for a double post. Please forgive me, mods.

But do we know how much in terms of warp stone trinkets and contacts the Grey Seer provides? I got the, perhaps strange, impression that one of the reason that Clan Fester can employ so much goodies from the Great Clans has to do with a Grey Seer pulling strings and such for the operation in both Übersreik and Helmgart. Meaning that Clan Fester can punch pretty hard with their own resources and also that they get punch even harder thanks to Grey Seer, and also Clan Pestilence, support which may be, in the case of Clan Pestilence, more than just sending some hundred plague monks to help out.

Damn, we really could use those lost lore pages.

That’s an interesting thought, I hadn’t considered Rasknitt’s individual pull, separate from Clan Fester’s.
He could probably even pull in favors without the need for money, I’m sure anyone would love to have a grey seer in their debt/pocket.

That said, something that further complicates things is that we, uh… Killed Rasknitt. So there’s a limit to how much we can justify things being in clan fester’s army thanks to his pull moving forward.

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I don’t see why not fight a Hell Pit Abomination or Master Assassin. Or a nurgle demon even. Not only did the 5 kill a champion, an ascendant, a master sorcerer, a grey seer, and blew up a warp gate, if WoM is canon they exploded a warp stone and traversed the planes of magic without growing tentacles.

I know mortals are small, tiny things in the Warhammer World, but that’s a lot of booms for a demon or two to not be eyeing Helmgart

In that case, I wouldn’t mind seeing plague toads, plaguebearers and beasts of Nurgle.
No Great Unclean Ones though, they are way beyond our league.

The only way I can see Clan Fester regaining any traction is if another Grey Seer somehow took leadership over Clan Fester after Rasknitt’s death.

Well, after both Rasknitt and Skarrik got axed we don’t know who is calling the shots with Clan Fester, yet likewise those buggers have been in Bögenhafen after a Chaos daemon-weapon, trying to get the stuff in Übersreik, working with their Beastmen “friends” and now they are their Chaos friends are running around in Castle Drachenfels doing, well, something.

I have two theories on what’s going on with Clan Fester.

Either Clan Fester has more or less been absorbed into Clan Pestilence as some kind of sub-Clan and now some Plague Priest is calling the shots for them, perhaps having some kind of ambition like Rasknitt to use Clan Fester for some ultimate gain.


Clan Fester have essentially become an auxiliary force without any hope for the future or leadership figure of a Skaven nature, and in true Skaven manner sucks up to the more powerful Chaos faction and so try to essentially live one day at a time under their new non-Skaven masters.

Personally I hope for the first alternative.

EDITED: Given also that, to me, the Skaven are the main villains in VERMINtide I hope some Skaven leader figure will come around to get the ratmen into shape and not let some man-things or beast-things remain in the driver’s seat for too long. But that’s just my preferences.

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power level of demons is all over the place too, so you could pretty easily justify them fighting almost anything that isn’t an already established named demon. you could honestly do a greater demon if you had an earlier mission where they cut off some of its connection to the warp or whatever was empowering it in that specific scenario.

To give in some lore from Vermintide 1 (and overall):

Clan Fester, more specifically their Breeders are suffering under the Brood Blight, a disease which makes the Rat Mothers (super old lore, WHFRPG 2nd edition) only give of weak, if even living offspring, which means that the numbers of Clan Fester are finite.
They were once on the Council of Thirteen, but were cast out of it (up until the Black Plague, around 1111-1143, also from WHFRPG 2nd edition). They eventually became a sub-clan of Pestilens.

During V1 Clan Fester was solely under the control of Grey Seer Rasknitt, who promised them a cure to the Brood Blight, which even Clan Pestilens had no interest in dealing with after learning all they could about it, fearing to infect their own Breeders with the dangerous illness, and shunned Fester after they contracted it.
After the almost complete destruction of Übersreik, the pact with the Rotbloods and the construction of the Skittergate, Clan Pestilens was most likely intrigued by their rise in power (and ignoring the Blight :man_shrugging:t2: ).

Skarrik Spinemangler, a pawn by Clan Pestilens (info about that could be gained through Olesya through her after-mission dialogue, now no longer accessible :confused: ), was set as the new chieftain for Clan Fester. The previous chieftain, Krench, was killed (by the Ü5) shortly after making the pact with the Rotbloods in Stromdorf. Barbeque Honeymustard was most likely his liasion, as he get’s mentioned later to be the culprit in stealing Lohners books during Death on the Reik.

So, they were only recently getting under the renewed control of Pestilens, thus the addition of the Plague Monks in V2. The addition of the other new skaven units was most likely happening under their influence as well as the higher status Rasknitt got for making the pact; we don’t know if he was responsible for that, Krench was a mightier chieftain than Skarrik, he had a Warpstone amulet which could shield him from harm, an immensely potent and pricey trinket, so he might had the idea (it was also during the time Rasknitt was in hiding after his supposed defeat).

The disruption of the Waystone network (Athel Yenlui) was also done by Clan Pestilens, which would hint at a strong Plaguepriest/lord directing the Clan through Skarrik while still being occluded from the Ü5. In that he certainly did more to stop the group than Bödvarr did.


I highly doubt Clan Fester could afford a Hellpit Abomination after spending so much Warpstone on the Skittergate (post skittergate), nor could they afford one during its construction. Rat Ogre’s are Clan Moulder’s Go-to money maker, they are a dime a dozen (I think I read somewhere the going rate for 1 Rat ogre was 200 Skaven Slaves, not sure the conversion rate of Warpstone tokens to Rat Ogre) I am sure a Hellpit abomination is quite a lot more expensive…

As for the Übersreik 5 (or 4 it doesn’t matter) powerlevel. Thats kind of hard to establish due to the gameplay. On one hand you could take all the accomplishments assuming they complete the missions. On the other hand you get stabbed in the back a couple times on Legend by a Skaven slave and they go down… :confused: .Not going to get into WoM territory but for sure we consider Helmgart is canon story.

all 4 of the Lord missions are assassination missions… the forces are thinned before our arrival due to the events of the missions that game before them (despite what happens in-game lol, plot wise we are to assume what we encounter in-game is the thinned out army lol)

Considering 4 of them are able to kill Rat Ogre’s, Stormfiends, and hordes of fodder / Grey seer / Skaven Warlord / Champion of Chaos / Chaos Sorcerer Lord. We know they have to at the very least be Hero level in powerlevel. There isn’t enough plot favoritism / good teamwork to assume they are your run of the mill army unit and be able to pull off the feats they have done.

Going to exclude the fact that it is possible to solo the game if your a good player. Not going to consider this as canon as the game is meant and story wise told as the U5 (or 4 it doesn’t matter) doing and completing the missions. If you have true-solo’d the game the congrats you fullfilled your power fantasy of being Lord level Warhammer strong heh (except lacking a silly amount of plot armor and magical items / weapons)

4 strong hero’s vs 1 Lord is pretty believable that they would win. They are not Legendary Lords so they don’t have plot armor as thick as a Skaven Breeder, thus they all died to the U5 (when played properly) Yet I think we have to also take into consideration the U5 limitations, they still have to work together to kill larger things like Rat Ogres and the Lords. If they where Lord level themselves a Rat Ogre would’nt even be a threat, it would be a warm-up to work off last nights keg of ale. So if a Rat ogre is a threat that they can possibly die against, then a Hellpit abomination for them would probably be a “Sigmar save us!” situation

Granted I would absolutely freaking love to fight or even just run away from a Hellpit Abomination in Vermintide 2… But considering how complex a Hellpit abomination is I don’t really see it happening. I am honestly somewhat suprised the unit is even in Total War. Modeling, rigging and animating a Hellpit abomination looks like it would be an absolute freaking nightmare. It would be very impressive if they pull it off. But due to the shear complexity of them I kinda doubt we will ever get to go toe to toe with one in Vermintide


" Yes-yes Warlord Krizk - for a treaty-pledge of just 200 Slaves, 12 claws of warptokens, a Breeder and certain alliances and pledges, one of our very-very finest Clan Moulder Rat Ogres can be yours… "

Quote from the wiki


That quote has convinced me further that Rat Ogres aren’t cheap, lol.
The actual dime-a-dozen unit that Clan Moulder sells is Giant Rats.

Which are normal rats.
But giant.
THOSE are cheap.

Other than that, very good post, Foxplay. I agree particularly on the U5 power level thing.
One thing that does have to be kept in mind, however, is the whole thing that some of the enemies that are completely out of our power scale, could perhaps be brought down to it through a specific boss fight. 'Tis the argument I always use against people that say the U5 are too weak to take on a real Vampire (they are. but maybe if it was daytime, and we had a special Lord boss fight about opening some windows or exploiting other weaknesses, etc…) or a Daemon fight for Drachenfels (A daemon POSSESSING someone is much, much easier to kill than an actual Daemon being summoned to our plane of existance, for example… there’s many ways to go about this)

But no matter the situation I very much doubt we could ever take on a hell-pit abomination.
Those things aren’t just gigantic and the size of castle, those things not only take on dragons and win… those things have a gigantic healing factor.


All the more reason for the hero Bardin to add one to his kill count.

Heads up, Drengbarazi! The Abomination comes for us.

EDITED: Fixed a misspelling.

'Tis ‘drengbarazi’, not ‘grengbarazi’, dawri.
We gunnae kill some dumgi, raki and gori or what?


Half of them literally being hero units or very obvious hero unit equivalents helps with that assumption too lol.

I think rat ogre being a notable threat is really just a gameplay balancing thing, same deal with Sienna not being able to conjure car sized fire skulls or giant walls of flame, or Kerillian not being able to oneshot almost everything from across the map (or huntsman being even worth consideration with a waystalker available).

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I would not put too much stock in Skaven economy or trade prices. Keep in mind they will price gouge and rip each other off if they think they can. They will also intimidate or simply kill merchant’s for discounts as well. It is probably whatever each skaven merchant / clan thinks they can get away with at the time, other factors may play into their prices if they are dealing with a high ranking Skaven they may reduce their price out of fear or some schemey-backstabbery reasons to get in their good graces only to betray-kill them later

An Under-Altdorf Spell scroll merchant literally sold Thanquol (a Grey Seer) a cooking recipe in place of a spell scroll. Skaven are dicks especially to each other. Yet Thanquol also got a mutated Rat-Ogre yet another “Boneripper” from a merchant named Schafwitt for just 20 Warp-Tokens. The orginal asking price was 400 Warp Tokens but Thanquol thru his excellent “Skaven haggling” was able to convince him to drop the price down to 20 Warp Tokens (Given that he was being held over a pit by Albino stormvermin over a mutant-Rat ogre that wanted to kill him, I would say that would be a fair price at the time…)

Rat-Ogre’s are certainly more expensive / worth than Giant Rats but, Rat-Ogre’s are still Clan Moulder’s main bread and butter money maker, its their model-T, their coca-cola, their mainstay product that made Clan Moulder so incredibly wealthy, they have breeding stock of them, perhaps they are not as countless as Giant rat’s but that would be because they are more expensive to feed, as well as more difficult to keep (especially if not properly psychologically damaged by Master Moulder Packmasters, other clan’s have tried breeding and raising their own Rat Ogre’s but are never as successful as Moulder). As for exact prices I highly doubt Skaven would ever set fair market prices, nor could you ever trust them to do so, Considering some merchant was trying to get Warlord Krizk to pay 200 skaven slaves, 12 claws of warptokens and alliances / pledges, for just 1 of the good Rat Ogres sounds like the merchant was trying to rip him off, or he had not started Skaven negotiating yet

But still a Hellpit Abomination seems way out of their sway or ability to afford…considering Clan Fester’s failing state, diminished if any at all influence on the Council of 13, heck we don’t even know how influential Rasknitt is… he may be some halfwit looser Grey Seer that the Order of Grey Seer’s sent on a suicide mission just to get rid of him with absolutely 0 expectation that he would succeed. They can only field a handful of Gutter runners, and Skyre weapons team units per mission, and maybe a Rat Ogre or Stormfiend. Gameplay mechanics aside thats a far cry from being able to field an army of the silly buggers

As I said I highly doubt we will be blessed with a Hellpit Abomination in Vermintide. The model is extremely complex. I don’t think the U5 in a direct fight would have a chance against one, but plot / story can often trump powerlevels / scaling… Maybe they have to run away from one and lead it into a trap with some well placed black-powder cause a cave in and a giant boulder crushes it into a rather large and bloody mess. Plot > power , and then it starts to revive and claw its way out anyway because its simply too horrible to die, but the cave-in buys you enough time to get to the bridge of shadows. That’s the only way I envision the U5 encountering a Hellpit Abom, going toe to toe with it? nah I just see them getting turned into lunch or a bloody smear on the ground if they where to try and fight it directly.


I believe lore-wise a single master assassin would absolutely destroy our heroes without breaking a sweat.

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I believe you.


That’s not your average master assassin, though. That’s THE master assassin!


Bear in mind, I don’t read the books just sometimes dig myself into the Warhammer Wiki:

Considering the bosses our heroes already have slain:
Bödvarr Ribspreader - The Champion of the Rotblood Tribe.
I guess he is more powerfull than your average Norsca Chieftain? I don’t believe him to be a serious Champion chosen by Nurgle…
He seems to me to be strongest of all Lords (Except maybe Rasknitt WITH his special play-thing)

Bubblegum Homeopathy - a Chaos Sorcerer (I think not strictly belonging to the Rotblood Tribe)
Seems just like your average wanna-be famous Chaos Sorcerer worshipping Nurgle.

Skarrik Spinemanglr:
You average Skaven Warlord of a minor Skaven Clan.

An average Grey Seer of a Skaven Clan.

So I do believe why not?
I mean I can’t find anything about “Master Assassin” my mistake, what about your “average” Eshin Assassin?
Already started such a discussion here…

Sorry. :frowning: