Difficulties are not proportionate/consistant

I’m playing Veteran. My power is like 360 because I can’t find a group that can succeed in Champion. I’m in all red(orange?) gear between 200-206. I spend about 95% blocking, 5% finding that one small opening where i can attack. First off, that’s boring as crap. But my real beef is this. Why am I being hit for like 1/5 of my hp by a skavan on veteran in this gear? I’m rolling as much defensive stats as I can. I keep having skavan that can out-reach me with their (small weapons? somehow?) and there’s always 1 standing behind a group that, after i stop blocking to attack then gets a free shot at me. No matter how much I spam block. Not fun.

During the last 3 games I just played on veteran, we essentially walked through the mission. Then got to the boss. And something happened around 30% hp on the boss where everything went to crap. All of the sudden there were storm-vermin coming out of our ears and Area Damage and about 30 other things and it wrecked our team instantly.

Fatshark. Why do you ask us to invest 20+ minutes into a mission when the boss at the very end can have bull honkey spams that wipe a group completely negating any loot? Why cant your game be more consistent? If the mission leading up to the boss is easy, having the boss be insta-wipe with poor RNG seems very poorly thought out.

Also “post contains words that aren’t allowed.” lmao sorry i forget we’re in grade school. (me after spending 3 minutes finding the 2 four-letter words buried in my thread)

1 Like

Push and dodge more. Dodge can be manually bound. It is annoying that there can always be one rat ambushing from the back

Don’t tunnel vision. For balance, bosses aren’t unavoidable, as they are powerful. So specials and trash must be dealt with

1 Like

I dodge and push as much as I can. But short of being ironbreaker or foot soldier, my stamina shields get eaten through. I’ve even gotten to the point where I go large periods just running around with my block up because I get sick of the cheap shots that take away a fifth of my hp.

erm. welcome to vermintide?

randomised spawns are a big reason why every game can suddenly turn from a smooth sailing rat crunching breeze into a frenzied 4 character wipe.

it is also a measure of how quick a player can prioritise and deal with threats if they all come together, and whether or not they are aware of approaching threats.

players who are blasting a boss, but hear the telltale skullrattle of a packmaster, should make a choice between ignoring it and going for the kill, or go after the special to make sure his party is safe - but the boss fight lasts longer.

WHERE you fight the boss also is important, if your party doesn’t move back or into a wider area for more space to fight and spread out, that sort of stuff causes wipes because they’re not prepared for possible hordes or specials screwing up the fight.

don’t blame fatshark for lack of skill in handling threats, that’s honestly kinda unfair. you should be analysing what could have been done better other than ‘omg this veteran RNG is unbeatable’

if the game were consistent (1-2 specials coming out at very specific intervals, horde spawn timer is every 30 secs) the game would seriously get boring.

3 Likes

this tells me you don’t have an awareness of threats that are around you. just keeping up block and ‘hoping’ you don’t get hit is not the way to play on higher difficulty levels. block only when necessary, or if you are surrounded and are trying to dodge out to a safer spot where you can see what you can block.

every game i try to make it a point not to get hit at all. unless you have high ping, this is definitely doable (some boss hits damaging you through your blocks suck though)

keep looking around, open your ears to threats (most mobs that attempt to hit you give out a garble before they strike)

i’m not trying to boast or anything here, just giving some constructive feedback based on my observations in my games, been playing since vt1 passionately. i notice that damage avoidance isn’t a big thing with players. you’re not meant to take damage in this game.

2 Likes

I understand prioritization. I just don’t feel like it’s ‘fun’ to know that the past 20 minutes you’ve spent walking all over specials and elites can be for absolute nothing due to bad RNG with the boss. I’m trying. Maybe I’m not as observant with spidey senses to know that something jumped down behind me literally 0.5 seconds after i turn around.

Not everybody can know that. I’m not saying I want easymode, but I feel like there should be a middle ground between walking over specials/elites vs wondering how your entire team was downed within a 4 seconds window of everything spawning+blanket Area Damage during a boss (or even a mini boss) that constantly self-heals if you don’t keep pounding it.

Maybe, I’m not sure, but are you playing with music ? Not ingame, just you own. Because survivabilty relies mostly on your ears, there is sound for specials, sounds before hordes (not the big horn, you can actually hear skavenslave “trying” to be sneaky before the horde comes), there is also a sound when you’re about to get hit out of you line of sight (so you can dodge or block)

Do you think this is an issue with the gameplay or reward structure? It can be either or both, of course, since if there are only one or two disproportionally difficult segments in a map (eg. 4+ special spawn) it can make the game between those segments feel trivial and feel like you’re wasting your time. Likewise, if you feel like you are wasting your time because if you fail at the end of them map you get no reward, then the issue is with the reward structure, which has been criticized in the past.

I find audio cues to be a bit inconsistent still. Mainly the horde sounds and the backstab woosh. Specials are usually fine, but it’s their spawns that are the problem with them.

2 Likes

I think they go pretty hand in hand. The missions have a pretty substantial length at times, and if your group wipes due to multiple things spawning on top of you simultaneously, failing and only gaining like 300 experience for your efforts is unfortunate. We’ve had an entire group of stormvermin come up behind us and then 3 chaos warriors turn the corner to our front. And we were wrecked because it was close quarters. My biggest thing is just that… why, on only Veteran, is it even possible for that much to spawn on top of you at once?

Like recruit is there to introduce you to the game. Veteran is there to start to challenge you. It feels like the difficulty sometimes jumps straight to “whattheheckjusthappened.”

I think that’s my biggest thing. Veteran is where (I think) you start having to “try” to be defensive, so I don’t believe it should be possible to have these crazy scenarios happen, as many people are just not ready for that yet at this point in the difficulty scale. I rambled a lot, but does that make sense?

Maybe my end-request would be to better-scale the difficulty tiers? Allow a person to grow as a player instead of just being face-squashed into a wall seemingly without warning.

I often play with things in the background. But “a special” sneaking up on me has never really been a thing. It’s more like 10 things spawning on top of us that has been the killer in my experience.

oh boy, you’re in for a nice treat when you finally try champion and then legend =)

patrols don’t spawn randomly, you can hear them a mile off. normally what happens is that other party members don’t hear them, and instead of running far away to hide, they skirt the sides, or go closer for some wierd reason like to check them out, or just find really bad hiding spots, or they just plain out attack. if your party chooses to engage the patrol AND move up at the same time, you will have problems on any difficulty.

if patrols or mobs are literally spawning out of thin air in front of you… then it’s a bug and should be reported. think that happened to me once, and i think devs are also looking into some reports of that.

the difficulty tier jumps are kinda the same feeling for all difficulties. it always feels massively harder (as it should be)

if you are struggling on veteran, trust me, it means you need a firmer grasp of the game mechanics and should still be training on recruit. i actually recommend a run with bots on vet first, to have a grasp of how things are like when your party actually sticks together. one player galavanting off or aggroing a difficult pack while specials and a patrol are about… can spell a wipe for the entire party. positioning is VERY critical in this game.

the problem is that we have a group of gamers who feel that the difficulty tiers need to be further separated or toned down, and another group that feels that the difficulty of this game is too easy. who to listen to in this regard?

for me, i think the scaling is just nice for now. if you are having trouble in vet, don’t be afraid to take a step back.

1 Like

So, tonight for the first time, I tried playing recruit level with some friends post beta and the difficulty has shot through the roof significantly for some reason. We are by no means amazing players, but decent enough that we could enjoy ourselves while having a fair challenge for a “starter” rank in beta. We had completed the first stage enough times to remember where everything is at this point and built up our gear a bit with loot earned. Now, post launch we are getting absolutely smoked so bad that instead of having a “fun” game night with friends, it has become an excersize in frustration. Any chance this will be tweaked agian so perhaps regular, none amazing players can actually enjoy themselves again? I am pretty bummed about this. :cry:

thanks for reading.

Honestly special spawns really need hard limiters, either on how close they spawn or the frequency with which they spawn.

Like it is complete and utter horseshit to have any sort of Special Unit spawn right behind your group from behind the nearest corner outside of y’all’s view, or to have something incredibly stupid like a troop of Stormvermin spawn a few feet behind you after a Horde Horn occurs because the Director decides you don’t deserve to win this run.

Things like Stormvermin or Chaos Warriors are units you should have the option to potentially avoid, but instead you’re better off fighting each one you come across because chances are you’ll end up fighting them anyway since their AI apparently decides to aggro a group who takes ten paces away from them and are completely in a separate room or area.

That sort of stuff happening with increasing frequency just makes me want to drop the game, and honestly just detracts from what otherwise feels like a fantastic (even with it’s flaws) game.

3 Likes

So, if I should still be training on recruit, this game has done a pretty fail job of helping me prepare myself for veteran. If I, someone who has been playing games since I can remember, am having such problems moving into the second of four tiers of difficulty (65 hours played at the moment) it isn’t all on me. There’s no way. If I haven’t figured out “what the game wants me to do in this situation” yet, it’s not going to just happen some day on recruit. It’s partially up to the developers to create a game that gives you the tools to learn.

If you think Champion and Vet are hard, and you say you’re in all red gear, you need to git gud. Oranges are not reds. Not saying it ironically. Champion is basically recruit to anyone who can clear legend.

drpillzredux nothing you say contributes to the conversation. take your “git gud” and “git out” please, thanks.

4 Likes

That being hit by foes that should have not hit you with their short weapons thing has botherd me since Vermintide 1, along with foes running towards you, then clip through you and hit you in the back. I was hoping it’s gonna be better in V2 but apparently not so my last hope is that it’s an issue stemming from the P2P connections the game is using and it’ll get better with dedicated servers.

So if you’re really struggling so much maybe I can help ya out (if you want of course) because seeing someone play can isolate the problem way faster then just making guesses. Personally I had some problems getting used to the difficulties as well and that comes from someone that finished the first game on its highest difficulty. But now im running champion without any problems what so ever and only legend is a real challenge (and by the horned rat, what a challenge it is ^^) so if you want feel free to add me, my steam tag is "Victor Saltzpyre“ (got the Bounty hunter as profile Pic) if you don’t then that’s fine too so here’s my guessed advice for that case: try out different characters or weapons you’re uncomfortable with. Often times it helps because you have to get used to the games mechanism all over again and in result making you a better player. Also don’t dodge|block spam - try to alway pay close attention to your enemies and act deliberately. Try to not make unnecessary moves (that’s meant as an exercise as well. I sometimes pick up a weapon and play a match where I try to land every strike and only attack if I know I will hit). Hope I could help a bit. Edit: this isn’t a direct response to drpillzredux post my mistake - this answer is of course supposed to be for the creator of this thread.

1 Like

I’d appreciate that a lot. This game doesn’t seem to provide me any means to better myself rather than just dying over and over not knowing what I’m doing wrong. Hopefully we can connect at some point and catch a game or so

1 Like
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu