You balance things around the top performance and the rest trickles down. Different builds are always viable on the lower ends of the player spectrum so no game ending scenario.
The 1% get so bored they looks for new ways to improve your low end weapons and builds. Creating new metas and suggestions on game improvements more valuable than the casual learning how dodge works.
Iâve been playing a mobile gacha game for ~1.5 months. In that time Iâve received three or four inâgame mail notices with an invitation to a questionnaire. They send it out after each event with ~10-15 questions. Half are about the event the other half are about in game mechanics and new characters that released. Takes about 3 minutes to answer them and we get 200 of the pull currency (1.33 pulls, basically, as single pull costs 150 of the currency). They take so little time and reward a good chunk of the currency as other daily methods that take about the same time only reward 30. The final question is always general feedback.
Send a few of these style questionnaires with some amount of Aquilas as a reward for answering and youâll definitely get a ton of feedback. All the questions (except for the last one) are yes or no, multiple choice, or âon a scaleâ, type questions.
They should make the poll inside the game itself.
This way, at least people who actually play the game will answer the questions.
They can offer some aquilas for completing a survey so players are more inclined to do it.
I would REALLY like to believe this is the case, but its the gaming equivalent of political âX-ismsâ. It just never works in reality.
What always happens, and it doesnt matter if its PvP or PvE is that.
Top 1% who DO NOT understand how out of touch they are from the rest of the community propose changes that work them - the give them challenge.
Havoc was that decision for darktide and where we are?
A mode where YOU HAVE TO play the most broken builds imaginable just to have a shot.
A mode which brought in even more peak player count that unlocked and loaded - people realized its utter sweat fiesta with no build variety - left in <7 days.
Now, its obvious dueling sword, knife, plasma, zarona .. etc need serious tuning.
That tuning however can only happen when fatshark has an clear idea of what DT is supposed to be, and what each individual weapons are supposed to solve.
Examples:
If current speed - activated Thunder Hammer headshot heavy doesnt oneshot a crusher. Then there is no point of this weapon outside of memes.
Knives have bleeding on hits/crits, but CHAIN WEAPONS dont.
Power sword on vet is either nothing or godlike, and for the godliek mode to be on you have to spam activation (I cant express how bad that is, how unsmooth and tedious that is.)
Rifles having LESS damage, LESS penetration, LESS cleave .. than a PISTOL round (not bolts)
My personal favourite - spamming dodge slide to avoid mandatory ranged pressure damage - why does this exist? Melee can be: blocked, dodged, pushed, staggered, parried (more weapons need devil claws parry/something similar as perfect parry)
Ranged can be dodge slid - dodged .. thats it
I agree with your post, but just wanted to clarify that original TH oneshots crushers with Thrust, +25% carapace in Havoc 40.
The problem is not Crushers, but how clunky and hard to wield the weapon is compared to other options. TH gets worse the more enemies you face. If you fight just a couple Crushers or just a monstrosity, itâs one of the best weapons in the game. But if you introduce horde, shooters, specials and elites all at the same time, which is the case more often than not, TH feels very awful to wield.
You have to backpedal against the elites and just continuously spam special for every single one of them, because even against stuff like Maulers or Ragers, using normal combos is counter-productive.
In Havoc, for the majority of the enemies (aka Mutants, specials, Ragers, etc) you HAVE to use activated special to kill them, because breakpoints are way off for normal swings (both heavy and light).
Spamming special attack for every single enemy other than unarmored horde enemies is an idiotic way to balance the weapon.
Yes I know, but it shouldnt need that at all.
With those (and thrust just being remade or removed) a powered up hammer should oneshot a crusher with a light attack overhead.
But in general I would LOVE to make ALL activated weapons to be like power sword is in Space Marine 2.
Its âpoweredâ all the time (animation wise) but the activation changes it from fast single target stabs, to slower aoe sweeps.
Relic blade, powersword, thunderhammer should work exactly the same in this regard. Buttons change movesets but the weapon doesnt have any special âoh sh-tâ tool such as:
Chain weapons are in a much better spot when it comes to power distribution of attacks/special.
But here I would make that ALL chain weapons have those multi stage sliding attacks, where each damage instance procs blessings.
And activation would change how many of these sliding attacks happen, up to a overheat meter as relic has now.
you say that as if the â99%â would have anything of value to add 
this isnt âbread for the poorâ or âpower to the peopleâ
its about a pyramid of different skill settings few of ever reach the top.
so what would be the appeal where âstoner fredâ would clear the highest dif cause its based on his limited skills and abilities?
i dont say havoc right now is in a good place but balancing up the top, should be made by people with knowledge and skills befitting that sphere and not the bystander audience.
(edit to be clear:
if it was up to me thereâd be no âtalent mechanicâ to circumvent havoc restrictions or de-buffs like overtoughness etc and people would have to clear it based on physical skill alone.
that way they could proudly wear the 1%batch and rightfully be at the olymp)
your â99%â is going other games the moment new hot 
comes out, gets bored and locusts away just the same.
so yeah, charge me 20⏠a month for a server and give me 1% worthy players to have a good time with any day
besides, roughly 70% belong to =<malice anyways or dont even aspire for higher, so why the fixation on getting everyone to the âtopâ?
i love myself a good mr. olympia show, but the roids alone would kill me, i dont get dilusional of being anything than low amateur even when on gear
as eastwood said âa man needs to know his limitationsâ
Certainly, I think balance should begin at the well established mode and not the newer. If anything the newer modes need to be tweaked towards the established baseline and mode.
I also donât put much stock in the new modes as they come and go like events while the core game lives on. So as far as Havok is concerned its still in its experimental version after all it took Darktide over a year just to get its act together IDK if Havok ever will.
No balance will be perfect but if you establish around top end play in the normal modes at least every weapon will be decent and have niche. I think having a good niche at cost to all else is a design flaw too that Thunder Hammer to Heavy Sword suffer at opposite ends of the niches of armor to horde specialist. VT2 had much better melee balance where every weapon could deal with both at least adequately.
Thunder Hammer is one to be looked at but by far I think Ogrynâs power maul is the worst thing out there.
havoc itself should be treated as the quick-fire failure that it his, i mean whats the deal?
people f-up at work all the time, no ones getting fired over it (i think 
)
and balancing done, by competent folk, to make auric maelstroms a bit wider in spectrum with:
°more meaningful engagements through tougher enemies that really pose a threat
°weapons that in intelligent combination (there are stupid loadouts, right?)
do their job equally over all classes
°free choice of maps AND stacks of modifiers.
people dislike emprahs dying flashlight?
chose from these 100 open suggestions or pop your own.
is every lobby going to fill⌠noooo
but at least thereâd be less âreject-my-ASSâ
it aint rocket science.
people want a good challenge and see how far they can crank it up.
at 3am with and ogryn and randoms or whenever they seem fit.
ârank gazillionâ isnt the bragging right, showing you going ham through EVERY maelstrom modifier at once IS
So the majority if the customers arent a customer?
Good luck then with your products
i aint selling anything, nor catering to anyones weaknesses or inabilities.
the fact you consume doesnt give you an entitlement to change the product on that base alone.
hence companies hire âproduct testersâ
they are customers alright, free to dislike or not buy.
not suited by sheer nature with the inherent skill to judge the products attributes out of the blue.
what would humanity be like if we focused on the lowest possible denominator ?!?
This is too much handwringing.
This game has already been through balance by pickrate/spreadsheet. It sucked.
If someone is pinpointing problems, making claims, and demonstrating claims in an honest way that anyone with the time can test themselves⌠thatâs valuable feedback, câmon.
Its not about niches, its about weapons being what they are supposed to do.
In VT2 you had greatsword which was REALLY WEAK against armor but best aoe cleave weapon in the bar none.
Fatshark leaned into this so hard that they gave it a cleave through super armor, afaik no other weapon had that.
2 HH was the best anti super armor weapon, and it was decent against hordes but it was SLOW, so only the slayer REALLY took 2HH to another level - which was offset by his yeet + no ranged weapon loadout (yes I know throwing axes were added, but with them he cant use 2 two handed bonsu power perk)
Weapons need identity 1st and then you balance it.
If Thunder Hammer isnt supposed to be THE BEST anti crusher/bulwark/boss weapon that is SLOW.
Then what is its point? To be still worse at its job than dueling sword, even after they nerft it?
Heavy sword is another good example of âwhy would I pick this?â
It deals very nice AoE, but it needs Greatsword treatment OR make the special so it chains into unuqie anti heavy armor tech.
plus proves knowledge of the underlaying problem, the "majority"isnt going to bother with anyways, and a means to convey constructive suggestions that may or may not find their way into the game.
but more than anything it comes from people with passion for darktide, not the ânom-nom-nomâ crowd and should be valued
I never said anything lowest common denominator.
I said it cant cater to 1% who are out of touch.
AND taht it should ASK its players what they think.
This inst HAVOC, this is DARKTIDE
on havoc being garbage we agree, on the other matter we dont, thats what a discusions for, not?
the 1% isnt âout of touchâ, they just leave the rest be where they are cause most of the time:
they dont even bother with higher stuff
lack the abilities and desire to change that(which is fine)
dont check the underlaying structure of the game, rather than say"me fail, me not like"
or many other reasons that are all less important than enjoying a good gaming session.
havoc being there isnt gonna take malice from the casuals.
casuals have no place in havoc to begin with unless they put in the works and evolve from being casuals.
i dont see a problem here yet.
however, making talents instead of true physical skill a mandatory thing, i DO have a problem with, for when i invest 1000 hours into something alongside my money, energy and heart blood i want a platform that rewards this kind of dedication rather than :push book to yellowâŚ
The Great Sword was great against armored packs could cleave through them and had a decent single target push attack with AP to give it some direct AP move against them healthier Chaos Warriors. Was no Meta AP but had options.
The Thunder Hammer has exact same swing pattern as in VT2 but lacks the amazing baseline AP in its light attacks which it had in VT2⌠and somehow still bad against hordes with its heavies in DT, I think they simplified all melee weapons at the start to have light = horde, heavy = AP and have never fixed since, even though the complex melee patterns and AP in VT2 had it bassically figured out at launch.
Vermintideâs Manling Greatswords do make me incredibly sad. Elgi Greatsword is⌠well, there isnât much reason to use it over Elgi Bardiche in 90% of situations but at least it can actually thrust. Darktideâs Greatswords absolutely wallop Vermintideâs Manling Greatswords because of their superior movesets alone.
That being said, a Thammer Mark with Coghammerâs moveset would NOT go unappreciated by yours truly.
Yah the new 2h swords are a vast improvement, while our old launch weapons still lacking.
I like 1 of the 2h psyker sword has a Kerrillian style horde swing pattern with much easier heavy to follow up for armor.
Likewise, the 2h Zealot sword just pops weapon special for extra armor pen too.
Both feel like successors to Elgi Greatsword and done right, new weapons i think are actual improvements over VT2 especially with weapon special mechanics and blessing system.
The Relic Sword swing patterns are particularly interesting and both have fun charge heavy swing for new combos too.
I did say to not alienate any groups so imma jus brush over this.
Then itâs kinda our job to fully understand what the creator is trying to say or portray in their content. Itâs not like Darktide is even that deep anyway. And while echo chambers are dumb, theyâre used to find someoneâs âpeopleâ in many ways.
Mhm, thats p a55. Whats the use of discourse when you end up silencing the other party in the end. Like content creators, all that could be planned, but if it is then people jus fall for baits.
Soon man, theyre watching and gauging via forums. Trust. The nerfs will come soon.