Ranalds gift was true grimdark, and somehow they managed to introduce even more of that in this game.
5 Likes
I genuinely cannot believe I live in a world where I actually miss Ranald giving me the 2mm treatment.
4 Likes
Why are sire melks items more difficult to obtain than reds in VT1?
2 Likes
Ignorant hm?!
It´s opinion-based what is better and what not. There have been already people here being like âI like the new system.â, âI like it that you don´t get godrolls week 1.â etc⌠And guess what? Some ignorant ppl showed up âIt´s ok if you like a bad system, but i doesn´t validate your words.â and other nonsense.
The idea behind it is easy⌠they took the most important stuff, the gameplay, from Vermintide and advanced it with more range and overall more options across the weapons and blessings etcâŚ
But they changed the system behind it. They went a route dozens of other PvE games took already. They don´t gatekeep top tier weapons, but it´s still RNG like loot you get out of a chest or by a drop. So they don´t gatekeep players from the endgame aswell, but offer a longtime progress with all the reroll stuff.
Of course you could also say âThey just want us to be online 24/7.â Yes true⌠but we´ll never know if it´s true. If anything we know both intentions are possible.
And it´s not bad if they try out new systems or try to attract new players with them. A lot poeple at Vermintides launch complained about âNo progressâ. And yes that´s right. Vermintides progress was not really a thing especially once you got your reds.
And again i can bring my Outriders example⌠the devs added new tiers and ascension points to offer a minor progress while playing and trying builds. And say said it from beginning⌠But how have the players been like? âWhÜÜÜÜ bs grind!â etcâŚ
It´s not like they did the same stuff run per run anyway similar to here. And such an intention to feel atleast some progress over a long run is not that bad.
Also again about the rewards. You actually get higher rewards on higher difficulties. (Again not mentionable / fast forgotten.)
a) You get more crafting materials.
b) You get more coins⌠yes more coins. A lot will say âIt´s wasted.â, but either don´t have the upcoming blessing system in mind or don´t know about it.
A lot just jump to the armory being like âbsâ and bye, because there is no 380 weapon. But a lot still come with blessings you may want to have for the crafting to either use them directly or to combine them to higher tiers.
Yes blessings are not here yet and it´s obviously not so rewarding like opening a chest. But the stuff is there and it´s not useless if we look where the game wants to go.
Noone said such âfansâ are wrong. If anything i´ve said they´re ignorant and don´t even give the stuff a try especially since it´s not fully implemented.
I can understand it especially if ppl have played mostly Vermintide the last 3 years and are used to it. Also that a bunch of newer Vermintide players don´t know about all the issues and that Vermintide´s QoL came with the years aswell.
But overall again, the stuff system in Vermintide has its flaws aswell and not everyone is a fan of it. There is nothing wrong to try something you or to go a similar way as others PvE games had in the past. And just because players have played Vermintide don´t mean, that they´re opinion is absolute and that we need âjust another Vermintideâ.
It´s also not that FS isn´t listening, they´re just not that fast to change stuff.
There have been maybe three people in total Iâve seen say that, Iâve read hundreds of comments complaining about the horrible RNG.
Did you play at launch? Reds barely dropped at all for the first few months, no one had many for a long time. If anything the lack of reds was a major complaint which Fatshark fixed by increasing the drop rates. The original drop rates were far above what a specific 380 weapon with one good perk is. If the drop rate for reds was so previously broken that Fatshark fixed it, why should we settle for orange equivalents being far harder to get?
Iâm still jaded about VT2, it wasnât as perfect a game as people pretend it was, but darktide is a complete dumpster fire in comparison.
Donât conflate âI like it takes more than 1 week to get godrollsâ with âthe RNG is completely fineâ. I find it positive you canât just get the top items as you like, but with crafting still not fully implemented and the laughable âhourly reset shopâ I donât think that gear acquisition is currently in a good place.
2 Likes
Why? Theyâre tools, not trophies. The perfect stat orange doesnât look any different to one with lesser stats, it doesnât give you an achievement, it just helps you hit breakpoints. Why should that be so rare?
Hedge has already confirmed that there is room in the system for a higher tier of weapon. That should be the class with abysmal shop appearance rates, and even then nowhere near what they are right now.
-
Of course here are a lot of Vermintide players who´re used to the system before. Just look at the most complaints which clearly say âWhy is this not Vermintide.â
-
As i´ve already said, the most tunnelvision here and don´t see how the game is in some ways better and even more casual-friendly. Yes it´s clearly bad for one and another that you can´t craft the weapon you want, but the odds and amount you´re able to get based on loot is still better.
Yes i did and imagine i got my reds, maybe lucky, maybe not⌠Doesn´t change much since the system drifted the way to get the stuff way easier and faster.
Not everyone plays or need breakpoints. Also i don´t think it´s that big of a thing here since the game comes a lot with stackable buffs, blessings etcâŚ
They´re there of course, but the system doesn´t seem to be that focused on it.
And again, some poeple just like to grind better stuff diablo-like. Diablo is popular for a reasonâŚ
You must have been in the vast minority, I can find my threads from a month or two after launch that complained that after 400 hours I had like 9 reds, 5 of them trinkets and 3 of them hammer and shields for barden which has always been garbage.
Itâs a different genre, the devs have never stated any intention to move towards that style of game, I love diablo but I find it as a justification for darktides loot system repulsive (no offense, I just think it really has no place here). Darktide is a coop shooter like l4d2 (which has no loot), which still has 19,000 regular players, almost double VT2s.
1 Like
Yes, youâre right. Usually we take the opinion of the majority and try to go forward from there.
How do we know what the majority think? The Steam reviews should tell you everything.
The majority of players clearly have a complete disdain for the systems surrounding the gear store, mission rotations and complete lack of a proper crafting system.
(This is coming from a person who has never been a fan of crafting items in games. Not that I dislike it, I just donât really care for it. Also, I barely played Vermintide 2).
If the idea was so easy, why on Earth has the implementation of such systems been so utterly shambholic in the eyes of the playerbase?
To put this down to âVermintide 2 fans simply want Vermintide 3â would go to show your own ignorance rather than anybody elseâs, to be quite frank.
Yes, dozens of other PvE games take similar routes. Does this mean itâs what we want for this game? No. Just because a bunch of other game studios think itâs a great idea, it does not mean itâs a great idea.
I donât think players are as âignorantâ or âinexperienced on the current systemâ as you are making out.
To be honest, all you really seem to be doing is pointing out the obvious and saying
"Itâs all explainable. Whatâs the problem?
The truth is, sadly, Darktide feels like a potemkin village.
Player agency/freedom is almost a total illusion in this game.
There are not even any statistics at the end of a match; it is pretty much impossible to know if you actually performed on par with your teammates or not.
Modifiers feel like a lazy, tacked on addition to the levels. The recent âHunting Groundsâ modifier really showcases this. And the âlights are out. Bring a torchâ one? Oh my fuggin LORD.
It is shocking to have played Vermintide 2 recently and see how fleshed out everything is compared to this.
People are not wanting another Vermintide. What people are wanting is a 40k horde melee combat/shooter with mission and progression systems BETTER than Vermintide 2, not worse.
2 Likes
Whelp, here we goâŚ
The game seems to be balanced around the current toolset with the intention of making tradeoffs. Apart from the âfeelâ that you need maxed rolled or absolutely optimal items for personal reasons this is in no way an actual requirement.
With more ârandomâ loot you have to make the best of what you have. Leveling random loot hoping for a good trait/blessing, leveling multiple items of the same kind not just as potential upgrades but as side grades too. It has a positive feel if you have the right mindset, and gives lots of room for actual experimentation. Weapons with around 330-350 base GS can be mighty useful with the right distribution if you donât discard them automatically just for having âlow statsâ or ânot god roll enoughâ.
This same mentality also gets into the playing part of the game, where everyone does the same. You canât just expect someone to have the most optimal hit-all-breakpoints weapon, and I find this a good thing. It changes up the game a bit. Finding a godroll item on something you arenât using also fun giving + incentive to try that item class out.
It also gives actual enjoyment to the loot collector enthusiast, so thatâs also a plus, VT2 basically had non of that.
Now I was thinking about listing some of the negatives of this system implemented correctly, but Iâm pretty sure you just want something completely different and thatâs okay. I personally donât care much about the âplayer agencyâ, the âwhy notâ, âVT2 did this so this game should tooâ and âI paid for it so give me maxed out in 10 hours cos respect my timeâ arguments so I give those a pass.
Just please donât conflate the horrendous âHourly reset shopâ, the problems caused by the missing crafting system with everyone wanting what you want. Full and correct implementation of the current design intent could eliviate 90% of the current RNG complaints (basically all apart from the I want the most optimal items complaint) for weapon drops while keeping all the upsides I find in it.
It has been argued often enough, that this system does the opposite of offering longterm progression.
I will tell you one more time and then reply no further to you, as it seems to be a fruitless conversation.
There is no long term progression or long term grind in darktide right now.
Something being pure rng with a chance so miniscule that it will likely not happen EVER (even after hundreds of hours and no matter the skill level) does not make for longterm âprogressionâ. It is longterm WAITING. It is like playing the lottery and waiting for the right numbers to show up.
Maybe it happens right away. But it is more likely that it will never happen.
Either way, you have no agency and you are not being rewarded for anything. It just happens, or (much more likely) it doesnt.
2 Likes
100%. Never buying a Fatshark game again.
3 Likes
Maybe i was i dunno⌠It´s acutally a minority running around in forums, posting stuff, asking stuff, moaning about stuff soâŚ
It´s really hard to say how it has been, but they clearly did a lot to cater their audience.
I get your point. Tbh i play for the gameplay mostly anyway, but i can even see the more âbad impactâ red items or godrolls week 1 have on a game.
A lot of players want something to do and PvE games need such long term systems to keep the players engaged. PvP games doesn´t have the issue âcontent-lacks.â
Also i saw myself just sticking on that reditem because âhey it worksâ and it always felt like a chore rerolling it. But with a more grindy system, i can also see myself trying out new stuff, trying out the perk that suddenly rolled onto my item etcâŚ
It´s again the question i´ve asked earlier. Which type of player do you want to cater?
It actually seems to be a good compromise to get fast to good - very good items to compete with the endgame. But if you want godrolls, of course you´re either lucky or need engagement with the crafting system.
Just add weapon-crafting on top of it. Gives us crafting mats if we destroy weapons, drop more special currency at bosses for more chances at the vendor.
I guess with such stuff on top there should be enough done against the RNG, but it´s not that you get everything ânowâ.
Yes the devs have never stated something, but it´s also just the expectiation from those who played Vermintide, that it´s going to be like Vermintide.
But why should we need another Vermintide, when it´s there and still supported? Not everything needs and should be the same. And i guess this game has already a fanbase as Vermintide has one⌠and both are not perfect.
(Vermintide still just has more years of development on its shoulders and yet poeple have doomed FS for bringing something different with WoM aswell.)
Tbf there are still a lot of positive reviews and also a lot of negative ones are still about performance. It´s just not possible to say something about âminority / majorityâ. Even if someone appears and complains about loot or whatever, how do you want to know what he actually wants unless it´s again someone being like âI want it to be Vermintide, or better!â?
Have you read the most stuff across this board?
âWhy is this not like Vermintide?â, âWhy is FS unable to implement the stuff from Vermintide?â, âWhy is the melee combat slightly different than Vermintide?â, and so onâŚ
I don´t put it down to it especially if someone is making valid points, have ideas, whatever. But the most here clearly put it down to âIt´s not Vermintide, how dare you FS coming up with something different?!â.
Define âWeâ.
I mean common⌠everyone wants things to be different. Just check out another Psyker thread where poeple wants to rework the class incl. some really awkward arguments.
But ok, it´s their opinion, fine⌠so my compromise was, how about we better ask for a subclass instead of changing what others enjoy? It would bring more variety to the table and they wouldn´t waste time on something, because some players just don´t like it, don´t get used to it, or see many flaws.
Not every class is for everyone and where some see flaws, other see possibilities and variety. But NO⌠because âWeâ want it to be changed, otherwise we miss like 25% of the content etcâŚ
The truth is vague⌠and highly opinion-based.
Yes i take care for things that might get forgotten, but i´m not like âWhat´s the problem?!â.
It´s like in every game-forum where an entitled playerbase sits together and often forgets the other side of the medal or just tunnelvision on changes and stuff, meanwhile some happy players might just playing the game? And suddenly a new patch arrives and those happy players aren´t happy anymore because everything changed.
I guess you know what i meanâŚ
You´ve your opinion and that´s fine. Everyone has one and also the devs have one. They also have intentions why they used one or another system instead of another and those are not always bad. Nobody even knows how things would´ve last if crafting was there fully completed day 1.
And while you for example see some lazy modifiers (which are like deeds), others see variety in a normally static mission board you rinse and repeat each day like you did in Vermintide with an optimized pathing from book to book⌠It´s just not for everyone and the average playerbase on Vermintide over the years shows that.
Also yes⌠a bunch want a better system than V2 had. But what is better? What is without flaws? How do you cater everyone?
It´s just not possible⌠but the current system is atleast a solid base to cater a wider audience than just some who wants godrolls for breakpoints.
You might not agree and yes it needs tweaks, we need more materials and weeklies should hand out rewards on what you did etc⌠there is room to improve. But if you or another have a brilliant magical idea to cater the most players, please show up and i guess FS will implement it.
I want whatever Darth Angeal is smoking.
3 Likes
Mate, you like so much DT you are painting the forum with your WoTs instead on playing itâŚ
I understand and acknowledge that the entire game is perfectly playable and fun without completely min/maxed gear. With that out of the way, I think the equipment progression system is best off like the leveling system. Controllable by the player, and following a linear progression path. At the moment the gear progression is more like an exponential curve, with the y axis being player time and x axis being gear stats. At the upper end, it may take hundreds of hours to gain a meager 5% extra cleave to get you to 380 base from 375 on a weapon, which is completely unrewarding. Considering that there are plans/room for an entire extra tier of weapons, I really donât think that min/maxed oranges should be considered as much of a ârare treatâ as they seem to be.
They havenât stated what the design intent is, although it appears that the current shop is the design intent, removing âprogress siloingâ being at odds with their design intent only reflects poorly.
The current design intent with refining is horrible, the response has generally been pretty negative and Fatshark are completely quiet on the subject.
You´re talking about a some more static progression like âI´ve done that, so i should get the otherâŚâ. Atleast its what you want and yes it was a thing with the reditems in V2 which made rerolling even worse, if not pointless.
But here we´ve a more RNG depended system and noone says something different. It´s like dozens of other games where you suddenly get the item you seek after 10h or 1000h. All you do is getting better odds by playing, by doing quests, by finishing higher difficulties⌠whatever. That´s how such games works and it´s progression for long-time players who mostly play for the gameplay anyway.
You don´t have to like it and yes, catchup or badluck - mechanics would be nice. But for the 10th time, there are players who like it. Just check out how many thousands if not millions of players play games like diablo, lost ark, overall korean grinder etc⌠this game is nothing else, rinse and repeat without any progress, no matter if luckbased or not, is a nogo for a bunch of players.
There is also no need to discuss this endlessly. I agreed from beginning, but i also disagreed from beginning. I know where you guys coming from and why you want that stuff to be changed or like V2 so badly. But you´re not alone in this world and your opinion doesn´t outweight those from others.
A compromise needs to be find by FS, but it srsly doesn´t look like you or others want it. You don´t even give them time and ignore that they already heard feedback and tweaked stuff like penances, the shop, the toughness etc⌠(Maybe not you but a lot of others.)
Also âagree to disagreeâ seems to be a foreign word here anyway. Was a thing at V2 launch already. There is more than black and white y know?!
There is also stuff like Netflix, Tft, other games overall you don´t need much input on?!
@Darth_Angeal It is clear that Fatshark has found a life long partner in you. They can do no wrong and you only have a positive outlook on all the things they do. Iâve never seen someone place so much effort into defending a companies honor as you have across this forum over dozens and dozens of posts.
Iâm glad you found something worth living for. More power to ya.
4 Likes
Leaving this hereâŚ
1 Like