I assume you’re asking as someone that didn’t play genshin on release, because the differences are pretty obvious. Also a small correction, Honkai which you mention, was already a pretty big global success, so they certainly weren’t on “the brink of failure.”
Darktide: $40, unfinished game on release, awful optimization etc, we all know. Devs basically disappeared for awhile, and only now, months later are finishing the game, but as far as post release updates and additions (new stuff not stuff we should’ve already had) we’re still kind of in the dark.
Genshin: While they’re both technically “live-service” games, darktide doesn’t really feel like one. Genshin’s on a 3 week release schedule that they’ve stuck to for 2 years, only delaying once because of extreme covid restrictions. The game is extremely well optimized, works on all systems, from phones to potato pcs. Free to play. Genshin released with 2 fully completed continents with quests, exploration etc, tons of characters to collect and level (compared to darktide’s 4). Just the sheer amount of content, polish and continual updates completely separates the two games.
Obviously, like you said, both have predatory monetization, but you don’t need to spend in either game. Darktide it’s all cosemetic, genshin is so easy you don’t need added power.
That’s a somewhat biased take, though.
In Genshin impact, every content update that is rolled out is tied to a new chest or character release, so it’s not like they do these regular updates as an altruistic thing from the bottom of their heart.
You better believe there is some pretty addicted whales who splush all their funds down the drain for that.
The monetary ceiling that you can spend, both maximized and in terms of what you get on average for your money is much much higher.
If you buy everything related to Darktide, currently released MTX included you end up paying something like 160$ or so.
In Genshin impact you pay 60$ for 10 draws and those don’t have to be good. You can technically spend 600$, get really unlucky and not even have a good character to show for it.
Like Diablo Immortals, if you do the math you will end up reaching a 5-digit number just to access all the content of Genshin Impact. Pretty insane if you ask me.
That’s not even taking into consideration that Genshin Impact has a sizable chunk of gameplay paywalled. In Darktide it’s currently cosmetics only.
Also devs didn’t disappear. You see those patch notes? Someone had to code all that.
As for post-launch content, it’s very obvious Darktide will get the VT2 treatment. A new content patch every other month or so with some DLC tied to it.
We’re both obviously biased, and that’s fine, but your takes are a little off. You can play genshin completely f2p and its not a struggle to complete the hardest content in the game. I’m not entirely sure why it matters that you can spend a lot of money or a little, I thought the post was more about the reasons one is successful and the other’s lost most of its playerbase which I outlined and you didn’t respond to. But you are definitely right that gacha is far more predatory than what darktide has.
I will still correct some of your misconceptions and/or outright lies though. Usually a paywall means you have to pay to unblock progress, which isn’t how it works. There’s no playable content in genshin that’s currently paywalled. (Quests, exploration, game modes, events, installing the game etc) Except characters, which aren’t necessary to complete any part of the overall game. You actually can’t technically spend $600, get really unlucky and not get what you’re looking for. The banners have a pity system that guarantees in 90 pulls (soft pity at 70). Something else you didn’t mention is that genshin hands out a lot of premium currency just in overall gameplay, so just playing the game lets you earn enough to take home a handful of characters you’d otherwise have to pay for. Can you earn premium cosmetics in darktide?
Were you here for darktide’s release, like I was? I love the game by the way, but we’re several months in and they’ve only now completed crafting, something that was advertised pre-release. Maybe you just missed the holiday blackout that saw complete radio silence for several weeks? That’s mostly what I meant by disappeared, genshin took off, hammering out updates and new releases from the very start. I’m glad darktide got here eventually, and hope the playerbase can recover, but don’t act like fatshark didn’t drag us all through the mud till now.
To a limited degree that’s true. You can play the game in it’s entirety for free. But you will have artificial limits put on your playsessions. Genshin Impact limits the rewards you can get from activities. You can still play thereafter, but only open world content then awards you things.
Didn’t know about the pity system. Is that new or a hidden thing that works in the background?
Either way, I consider it to be paywalled content because different playstyles are tied to the characters and you do get those from paying.
You’re right that you can earn a number of rolls and premium currency, though.
Yes, I played from the first day of the open beta. I wasn’t really phased by the issues and the jank, was kinda here for it to be honest (expecting funny bugs and such). I came in with the ‘Fatshark’ expectation, since VT1 and VT2 launched with similiar issues. The only thing that truly rustled my jimmies was the performance issues.
Maybe not a fair argument, though.
In any case, it was a launch with issues alright. I’m not questioning that.
The 90 pull hard pity was there from day one. The targeting system was put in a few months later, mainly for weapons because they followed different pity rules.
That’s the thing between gachas and DT. Most gacha know that players need to be given what they want sometimes. It’s coldly calculated so that you get that something every x weeks or months with the free premium currency and pity systems, but it’s still there and you can plan to target something and almost guarantee to get it. DT is just “Oops, it’s all RNG, we may have tuned it for x hours but since we have no true RNG mitigation it’s an RNG fest for the entire time you interact with it”.
It’s the difference between, “you have a 1% chance to get the item you want,” and, “you know you’ll get the item you want within 100 attempts,”.
Target customer is the answer.
Anime gacha game fans are much much more than the l4dlike or 40k fans, and those people loved to pay thousands of dollars for their anime waifu/husbando. Those people seldom express their dissatisfaction and easily to be appeased by a little compensation. Even if developer try to annoy players (usually because of bad stories), it only takes a little money and man-hours to fix the problem.
So wrong, Honkai Impact has always been one of the most popular mobile games in China, each quarter has a turnover of more than one hundred million dollars. This gambling mode has become very mature in East Asia mobile game circle，their profit margin is dozens of times that of western counterparts. And game companies who already have a stable fan base in market can easily achieve more success( like Mihoyo). For those who don’t play gacha mobile games, it’s really hard to imagine.
Another question is player’s expectations for game’s future. Compared with anime gacha game fans, l4dlike fans have higher requirements for gameplay or other design. Naturally DT players have less tolerance for a game company which going backwards.
Where I am it’s more like 30 dollars for a ten pull, without the 2x bonus that resets with every major yearly patch (the release of inazuma and more recently sumeru). I still find that a ripoff, so I only stick with the welkin moon (90 primogems per day for 30 days for five dollars). Doing that on top of doing dailies and events (all f2p content) gave me almost 70k premium currency after 6 or so months and I was able to get a five star character along with all of their constellations. In order to make use of the pity system I try to stay above 20k before deciding if I should pull on a banner with a character I want, just to guarantee that I can get it. From what I heard genshin is a lot more generous with pity than other gacha games. I only stick with mihoyo because their games have a lot more depth to them than just being waifubait (i love the music and lore). With that being said I still love kiana and hu tao lol
Others have already said this but: the difference is in the audience.
Genshin launched as a mobile breath of the wild copy right after everyone on earth found out how great breath of the wild was. The key thing to focus on is that it was free to play and on mobile, regardless of any other platforms.
Darktide is played primarily by core gamers, and not just any core gamers – only by those who own enthusiast gaming PCs. The expectations of those 2 different audiences bare no resemblance.
The prices might have changed, too. I should have disclaimed that.
60$ / € for 10 draws were in the year it launched. A friend dragged me into that game and I wanted to stay up-to-date so I tried it. Didn’t get me far, then I realized I couldn’t get deeper in without spending serious dosh. That was during launch days, though. A point in time where 3 full days of gametime would get you through the main content. It’s much more now, though. So I believe you will probably amass a lot more resources and things by the time you run out of “free rewards” from campaign and such.
And by now they might have also improved the pity system or done other things. We talk about a timeframe of several years here. It’s probably not even the game it was at launch anymore.
Very good points both of you.
Many of the gacha and anime game fanbase will go quite far in their obsession. It borders abuse what they accept.
Dead or Alive is a good example for how far they will go. The game series has a base launch price and then down the road DLC worth x20 the price of the base game, justifying it with the extended modeling work that goes into the 3D models. It’s all bikini and school girl costumes for the most part. And people buy. It’s insane.
Why was darktide a disaster and how did genshin manage to avoid that? Even worse, darktide came out two years after genshin. Why didnt fatshark take notes?
Surely fatshark must have been aware of their audiences higher standards? Thats ironic considering the amount of polish in genshin. They definitely didnt need to go as far as they did.
No, I didn’t mean it like that. What I mean is I couldn’t get deeper without feeling my fun being sucked out by the progression design.
I was doing fine in the game itself, but I have a habit of disliking games that go too deep into seasonal stuff and time gated stuff. Ironic I know, but with Vermintide / Darktide it’s usually some frames or something and that’s it.
With Genshin Impact I didn’t play for a few weeks and then when I came in the next time content had dropped, I felt so left out and needing to catch up I straight up got overburdened. The game has too much content unironically.