Customer Service, Player Appreciation, and Dishonest Marketing

Because you’re a troll, yes. Also, you’re taking the “wiping” thing far too literally and it’s been explained repeatedly in detail in multiple threads where the issue with that is so, again, fanboy on and keep looking ridiculous. I’m not going to reinvent the wheel for you just so you can understand what’s going on. Call our whatever the hell you want but don’t feign ignorance.

Fun fact for you: yeah, so they recycled hats then withheld them to be used with a feature you’re arguing they didn’t plan ahead for… Despite them planning ahead enough to withhold content they’d already created to be used in it… and said content being something from VT1 they damn well knew everyone wanted. Nothing weird going on here. Excellent brain-thinking on your part.

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So many words to explain that you were crap-posting for the sake of it… Apparently when somebody calls you out on your crap it’s their fault for reading what you wrote “too literally”. Especially in cases when you claim two mutually exclusive problems and claim you are right about both at the same time.

And still no link to even a single “marketing lie”…

Friendly reminder btw that you might just waste time replying to every troll remark that aims at only calling you out rather than adding constructive discussion; flagging is a better alternative

Yeah, I was about ready to start up Pong instead when I got kicked out of the group I was in and heard the host clutched the ending and the others managed to get back up too and were waiting for me - then when they went to end their run they ate a 1110 error too.

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Has there been a dev response to this 1110 crap anywhere yet?

Negative, though it only just popped up I believe so they’re probably pulling out their hair if they’re not in bed atm - can only imagine what waking up to this will be like :joy:

If it isn’t fixed tomorrow I’ll likely just quit for now and see if the game is fixed in a month from now c: if they do iron out the kinks at a reasonable pace from this point on and improve communication I’ll even try and write up a decent review and ask others to do so as well but… yea time will tell

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Yeah but it’s not the end of the world.

I’ve been drying to make a fan trailer for this game but I won’t do it on principle while customers are being treated like this and they have zero accountability.

h_3_15

But yeah, I’ll wait it out, guess I’ll hope someone makes a good umgak thread in lounge for people to vent.

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The game clearly launched early; as I’ve said before, I can’t imagine this was a desirable option for them, but probably a financial one. As in, they literally could not afford to wait longer.

The game did technically launch with cosmetics. One for each career - which is lame and disappointing, but not a major problem. I think the only thing lacking now is the keep customization?

Bugs were a much bigger problem, which they’ve made significant inroads towards fixing. I agree it shouldn’t have launched in this way, but there’s a lot of things to be outraged about in this world, and getting this upset over a video game (that I and even many of the angry people here have enjoyed for hundreds of hours) does not seem worth it. I do not feel ripped off in any way.

That is the real question; do you feel ripped off by the way the game launched? If yes, and you’ve already enjoyed the game for hundreds of hours, you’re just a hypocrite. I can understand disappointment about the faults, but you have clearly gotten your money’s worth. If no, then that’s great. We should give useful feedback about things we think need improvement.

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This statement bothers me as there’s a difference between hours played and hours enjoyed - yes I enjoy playing this game, but I am at this point very mixed about having bought it. In hindsight I’d rather have waited a few months, maybe coming december, to buy it. Especially if I’d known what a trial and a half it’d be on it’s players at times.

I clock in at well over 400 hours, so yes, in part I feel like I got my money’s worth, especially for the money spent, but then again I’ve always felt like Fatshark undervalued the price-point of their games. Not saying it should cost a flat 60$ but they do seem to undersell themselves. I guess in part its because they reach their full price-point by adding DLC.

The reason I stated I felt like I got my money’s worth only partially however is because I play this game because my friends also play it, I get more enjoyment out of spending time with them than I do simply with the game at the moment. It’s a bit disturbing when you’re bonding with your friends over bugs occuring in a game that you hope will get fixed ‘‘soon’’ for the past few months.

That’s also a part of what’s kept me playing, the hope that it’ll continue to become more stable, which admittedly has been taking longer and has been more frustrating than I’d like to admit. Luckily I play other things as well in between and have work/hobbies/etc to keep me busy as well but in general I can definitely sympathize with the thought of just wanting a working product when you pay for it. A few bugs sure, but plenty of bugs as well as newly introduced ones are essentially gamebreaking beyond the occasional silly bug where you fall through the floor once every 1000 games or hard-to-do level-bypasses etc. Those aren’t as harmful as doing a whole mission, clutching it here and there, managing to do it and then near the end of the run all that hardship gets lost in a backend error.

Just a slow process of accumulating hours of your life not just wasted on a videogame (at least it’s leisure) but on a recurring error that you have no control over nor desire to deal with, which subsequently swallows up any and all progress you’ve attempted to make.

But at least it’s not the end of the world.

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That’s a fair point about “enjoyed”, though still . . . you’ve played for four hundred hours. It is bad that you haven’t enjoyed it as much as you should, but you chose to put that much time into the diversion.

I might add a more detailed response in the morning but, to be fair, it takes about a hundred hours to hit endgame where the most prevalent and damning problems are. While it could be argued that someone had gotten their money’s worth in grinding, I disagree. In games like this, that are designed to be played for hundreds of hours if not thousands, 99.9% of the game is endgame. No one does Recruit and thinks, “This is what I signed up for.” It was virtually impossible for any of us early adopters to be exposed to the slew of gamebreaking issues or the degree to which the game was incomplete until considerable time had been invested to reach the point at which we all actually wanted to play. VT2 isn’t the only game guilty of taking advantage of its grind to mask major issues (pretty common MMO practice but it’s still unacceptable) but off the top of my head I can’t think of another game that’s grifted me this hard in terms of just how buggy and unfinished it was relative to what they were marketing once you reached endgame. Also, there really isn’t a lot of actual content in the game; 6-7 hours worth of unique material, tops, yet it’s padded ad infinitum thanks to the lazy RNG system that denies players something as simple as a hat to make their character look the way they want it to. Hundreds of hours to maybe get something that almost any other game would make accessible for very little effort. We play because the rewards are heavily RNG gated (more on that later). This kind of system is always a huge red flag for me as it signals low confidence that enough people would continue to play a game solely on its fundamental gameplay merits. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but that’s how it comes across.

Another important consideration is that the game wastes a lot of the players’ time through crashes, dropped hosts, director bugginess, general bugginess, and other pretty fundamental issues. For example, it took us over five hours yesterday to compete a legend challenge that we actually easily finished on our first attempt but, due to buggy b’s, , were screwed out of. On subsequent runs the game wouldn’t grant credit despite the challenge conditions being met repeatedly, and we had backend error crashes, host disconnects, or director bugginess all night long before finally getting it at like 3AM. On one particularly annoying attempt, we spent 15min kiting and proc’ing the challenge to finally realize it was absolutely 100% bugged and when we ended it, we got recruit boxes… So the game knew we were in a legend instance for the level content but somehow thought we were recruit for rewards and I’m guessing challenge purposes… A massive chunk of my hours fall into that kind of bs category. Hell, tonight I was in the slow process of trying to “speed run” solo the Righteous Stand legend challenge when the backend kicked everyone out… Tons of tedious kiting while whittling down event mobs utterly wasted. It happens way too often. Yeah, we still get gameplay… But it’s kinda like you’re playing Risk and 3/4 of the way through every game someone comes in and just kicks the table over for no reason. Quickly becomes an exercise in frustration.

I stuck with it because I see its potential and the devs had a lot of goodwill bucks stored up in my books from my experience with VT1. All I want to be able to do is sing the game’s praises and make cool YouTube videos of it but I’m not going to plug a game I can’t wholeheartedly recommend to friends with a straight face in its current state. All that goodwill is spent now thanks to atrocious customer service. I’ve simply run out of excuses to let them get away with things I wouldn’t tolerate in any other game. It just isn’t acceptable practice, especially not the way they’ve treated customers. Still zero indication they even recognize the fact the game’s Early Access is an issue because “it’s not the end of the world.”

Lastly, as for player motivation, this game is a raw, unadulterated skinner box. Don’t get me wrong, the core gameplay is fun but people wouldn’t be flushing thousands of hours of their lives down the drain to do levels they could, by now, run in legend in their sleep if it wasn’t for the operant conditioning behind pure RNG lootboxes driving almost every aspect of player behaviour. Virtually every aspect of the game has been slow roasted in RNG sauce then smothered in RNG gravy for maximum time-sucking potential. Again, I can’t think of another game off the top of my head that disrespects the player’s time to this extent. You could play for 1000 hours and not have a single thing you were after but continue to smash your head against the wall because of sunk cost fallacy and the way this game’s reward system triggers addictive behaviour. To make matters worse, some lucky noob could get what you’ve slaved away at on their first day. It’s a lazy, garbage, time wasting system and it represents the absolute worst in gaming a la “it’s a casino where instead of money we spend time and the prize is valueless.” Then, to make matters worse, they just failed to track critical stats, so everything you ever did just doesn’t count for the system that depends on those stats. That’s unacceptable without an appropriate response to the community of supporters who’ve already put up with a lot of crap and the response we got want even an apology. It was more like, “yep, we did that, so what?” Everything could be 100% forgivable if the community interaction wasn’t so god awful and they showed some appreciation for their customers.

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If I may add upon this discussion. There is one thing I need to say on the matter. Fatshark is one of the most secretive company I have ever met. Most companies would at least, have the decency, to update the community on specific critical issues; such as the backend error. But nope, not this company, they don’t even care.

I love Vermintide 2, I really do. It is one of the best games I have ever played, but this company is awful. I wish this IP was in the hands of a different company.

Also, the Vermintide 2 community is filled with toxic people. On steam, there is lots of fools who would bully you, and insult you.

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Are you for real? How can you even say that Fatshark doesnt care, but in the same time state that you were glad to the them as passionate indie devs in V1?

If you were actually present at the release of V1, you would know that their support was utter garbage and they didnt fix anything for the first few month. In V2, they are showing constant support, its not even slightly compareable to the mess they did in V1. Saying they dont care, just shows how little you know about the whole topic. Its really pathetic, that people like you writing their unqualified opinion wanting to influence the developers.

They bully people like you, because you write ridiculous garbage like “Devs dont care at all”.

Arguing that they have a track record of horrible customer service doesn’t do much to refute the assertion that their customer service is still horrible. One dumpster fire being bigger than another dumpster fire doesn’t change the fact that they’re both still dumpster fires. :fire:

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Its about the fact, that Fatshark is actually trying now and doing a way better job than they did before. Its not my fault, that you people here expect Blizzard-like support from a developer who clearly has its problems. It also doesnt help, that you people are constantly whining all the damn time.

Although I really can see where @Avar is coming from due to the sheer length of time it has taken to fix some stuff that was feted as being in from launch, I’m going to try and inject a little bit of forgiveness into things.

Firstly, i believe FS had every intention of following their own roadmap and delivering what we’ve got now in 1.1 patch within weeks of launch.

BUT there were much bigger issues that should’ve been spotted but weren’t. The whole problem of cleave and stagger not working properly being the biggest issue for me. Talents broken etc. There are fundamental issues with QA that should never have seen the light of day. And I haven’t even mentioned the fact the game used to crash harder than a diabetic with their face in a bag of icing sugar. Because they failed to identify these big issues, when they were discovered FS had the rug yanked out from under their feet and wrecked all their plans. Now they’re scrambling to fix BIG stuff that should have been done before launch. Also they sold beyond their wildest dreams which added to the maelstrom.

But I can somewhat understand and be forgiving of those things because they’re people after all.

Having said all that, my level of forgiveness is slowly being eroded by the fact that every patch is a bit broken and QA is somehow missing.

Someone somewhere needs to just take a deep breath, put together a statement, and have a bit more attention to detail when making a new patch. That’s all they need to do to repair some of the damage as far as I’m concerned.

And give me 50% discount on first new dlc. :slight_smile:

Right, technically, because droprates.

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That’s how every unmoderated community on internet works, shocker.

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You know nothing about me or my involvement in V1, so please keep your stupid unqualified conclusions to yourself. Looks like you 100% failed interpreting my post, and I can’t be bothered explaining it to you.