Crafting system/dust reward simply don't work

However, with the ability to convert dust, the problem isn’t really the quantity of crafting resources

It is the quantity because I play legend and normally I win >>> I get emperor box >> this give me orange items >>> orange items give me orange dust: I can’t reroll nothing. Orange items give few dust. Probably I will gain also some blue items and so blue dust… but I must to halve it to get green one.

A RED item could need also 50 green dust and 100 blue dust… but reds are rare and we have a lot of weapons, 15 careers, more build… and think with orange items…

This is my reality.

Not sure what you want here. ALL items to drop blue/green dust? If that’s the case, then how do we get orange? Or do you just want a single crafting resource (rainbow dust?). Then the item qualities don’t matter at all?

Green items need green dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green dust.
Blue items need green and blue dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green and blue dust.
Orange items need green, blue and orange dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green, blue and orange dust.

This and more daily quest… just some examples!

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You also get a ton of companion boxes playing legend since the XP is higher. I am personally sitting at 600+ of every dust type and I’ve geared every character. And I have maybe 200 boxes I haven’t even opened… So I’m not sure I see your problem.

Maybe be more efficient with your usage? Save oranges so you don’t have to reroll every item? Save boxes and open them on other classes to fish for a useful orange instead of crafting?

Green items need green dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green dust.
Blue items need green and blue dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green and blue dust.
Orange items need green, blue and orange dust to reroll >>> melt them should give green, blue and orange dust.

This and more daily quest… just some examples!

Sigh. Your suggestion is essentially one crafting resource at endgame. I’d just have a nearly infinite amount of green/blue dust – with the existing converter.

So, again, I’m going to end up with basically a single infinite resource – which negates the point of even having a resource system.

Try again?

But try again what?! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
So if you have 10000000000 hours and tons of dust, you can decree with arrogance that the dust it enough. Find nice bonus on one single RED item could need 4-5 days of farming (50 reroll, for example 50 green dust used and 100 blue). I repeat: we have 15 careers with 5 slot and with various builds… and now reds have the right rarety, but duplicates are still a problem (you could find 20 useless red weapons but not the one you want).

As others have mentioned in this same thread, there isn’t a resource scarcity problem. If anything, there is an overabundance problem at endgame. I believe you may be wasting resources.

Your proposals to change the system only create new problems. All of your proposed changes so far would create essentially a single resource system and make that resource so abundant that it is practically infinite – which defeats the point of even having a resource system.

You have not yet responded to this second point at all.

Find a right quantity of dust it is not my job; I have just done an example. The important (and objective) thing is that farm 5 days (2 hours at day) to find nice perk on one single red item while

we have 15 careers with 5 slot and with various builds and reds duplicates

it is not balanced.

Well maybe i am a little harsh on Vermintide 2… but at least i’m consistent with what i am saying.
I did not claim grey dust is the solution to everything, its just some quality of life by removing one time consuming step that makes all the dust the same.

Again, i never said its perfect, but its much better.
and here comes the consistenty part:
You say to plentiful resources are boring and meaningless.
Welcome to Vermintide 1 where every thing you have was hard earned and had meaning… and you did not like it.

600+ of every dust and the amount of boxes you still have, you know… dust is already meaningless to you.
Grey dust would just save you some time.
So… i dont get what you are trying to say, you are all over the place. But maybe i am just slow.

Not sure where I was inconsistent.

Reducing the crafting system to a single resource is a terrible idea, for the reasons I’ve already stated. You are trading “quality of life” for making the crafting resource nearly infinite and essentially meaningless. You may as well remove it completely at that point. If you have a solution to that problem, I’d love to hear it!

Or perhaps you all really are just arguing for infinite resources – in which case, I just don’t agree.

There are problems with both crafting systems. That’s not inconsistent. I just don’t agree with your or OP’s proposals.

VT1’s materials were too scarce and had to be supplemented with contracts.

VT2 tried to fix this but made materials too abundant. This abundance also degrades the value of oranges, making it hard to re-implement contracts (since there are fewer reasonable rewards) and requires larger RNG or resource cost on rolls to force you to spend materials.

I’ve been pretty clear, but I guess I’ll say it one more time? If there is a crafting problem here, it isn’t that crafting materials are too scarce. It’s that they are already too abundant.

So your argument is really, “If the materials are already overabundant, then who cares if we make them even more abundant.” That logic is a little cringy.

Me: “My house is on fire, and it’s almost to the garage!”

You: “Let’s go ahead and set fire to the garage right now!”

Me: “No, please don’t. That’ll just make the problem worse!”

You: “Eh. Your house is already on fire anyway, why should you care?”

The funny thing is that i main Sienna… and you know… that sounds reasonable.

Right there

and then you turn around and say

that’s the inconsistency i was addressing.
But maybe you and i should not talk about the extremes of infinite and super rare.
I did like the crafting in Vermintide 1, yes it took some time to get there but i think it was good at the end.
A middle way is maybe the best, if you still can change the crafting in Vermintide 2 to such a degree.

How bout using some of that scrap that just keeps building up. Can we convert some of that. Also can we convert more than 10 at a time? Yes, that RNG is annoying… but honestly if you only have 20 green, you aren’t gonna get what you want. You should actually settle for trying out some other properties.

Convert scraps is a good idea.

Aye, I’m sitting on around 8k scrap, it’s useless… I have 800 hours in the game, I’ve only fully geared the elfs 3 classes and salty boi, whom I got lucky on. First 5 legend boxes I opened gave me red xbow, repeater xbow, falcion, raiper and pistols. I’ve got kruber a red handgun, but still using an orange halberd, which I had to reroll 350 times to get the stats I wanted. Meanwhile, spent all the rest of my dust on the dwarf and mage. Still trying to get decent rolls for them.

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Again. I’m sure where I’m being inconsistent.

In VT1, crafting materials were too scarce.

In VT2, I actually feel that crafting materials are too abundant.

Making those two statements isn’t inconsistent. This isn’t an issue with only two answers. Scarcity increases the value of crafting materials. But too few materials makes it so you can’t craft. So it’s about finding a good balance that makes resources scarce enough to have value, but abundant enough that players can still craft. This is an issue that affects every crafting system – unless it just forgoes crafting resources altogether.

In any event, I don’t agree with OP’s position. Dust conversion already exists – which effectively reduces the dust rarities to a single type of dust. I think this is why FS was so slow to add a converter at first – since it dramatically increases the total dust that can be used by the players. But they needed to, because they didn’t account for the difference in green/blue and orange drop rates between beginning and endgame. So adding the converter still kept the total amount of dust relatively constant.

OP is suggesting taking another step. He wants to add more total dust to the system. That seems like throwing gasoline on a fire from my POV. These other suggestions re converting scrap are also pretty bad – since, again, they increase total dust. If FS made these changes, dust would become so abundant that no one would really care about using it or not. Which sort of defeats the points of having a crafting resource.

And I’m not really sure the current system for dust drop rates is really as low as OP claims. Let’s take OP’s comment that it takes him 10 hours (5 days x 2 hours per day) to reroll one red item.

Let’s say that’s 30 completed legend games (20 min/game). Reasonable since it would be closer to 40 for me. But we’ll account for slower clear and some wipes. We ALSO gained 15 commendation chests (roughly 1 every 2 games). We ALSO gained up to 8 daily quest chests. So we had a total of 53 chests. Or 159 item drops. If we then assume that every item scrapped into at least 1 dust of any type (that’s actually low), then we just gained a minimum of 159 dust. We don’t care about type since we can convert at 1:1. This also assumes that we found NO oranges with decent property combinations (not my experience). We’re also ignoring the red drops we received. Probably somewhere between 3-5 in my experience.

So OP was able to reroll properties on his red almost 80 times for 10 hours of play. And he more than likely found several oranges with reasonable property combinations. And he also found 3-5 reds – further increasing his crafting efficiency by reducing RNG. Unless he’s the unluckiest person in the world or just burning crafting materials on dumb stuff, he just got enough materials to reroll multiple red items and now probably has between 3-6 max rolled reds.

Honestly, looking at the math, it’s actually pretty easy to see how people end up with huge resource build ups. And you all want to add MORE dust to this? At least the current system encourages you to be somewhat efficient with dust usage. The proposals you all provided would make it so we had basically infinite crafting resources.

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The whole crafting system needs a overhaul. Personally i don’t have issues with dusts but it does drive me nuts to spend nearly 15 minutes just rolling for this 1 specific combination. Is it really too much to ask just being able to put the exact properties/traits you want in the weapon and maybe pay like 3-10x the normal rolling cost instead ?

Now those people who want to roll and maybe save some dusts can do so and this game can stop wasting my time and actually allow me to play the game instead of watching the forge bug out for the 10th time.

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Exactly… I think I will leave the game for content lackness without to have the possibility to use every career…

You nailed it!

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