There’s more than a little Exaggeration and hyperbole… and it doesn’t help either. It makes people take the issue less seriously. It, and the general disrespectful nature some have brought that makes the devs not really want to interact on the issue either.
And I’m not downplaying it. It’s top of my list for things to improve at this point.
Untrue. I at least have SOMETHING. You don’t have ANY polls or ANY metric data supporting your claims. I DO have things. You just don’t think it’s good enough. An important difference.
I mean, this is primarily what most people would want (from what I have seen). If this is your stance I will leave it to you whether I add your name to the long list of people wanting crafting changes.
What kind of a monster would create a crafting system, that does this to this beautiful Kantrael 1a, hmmm???
Think of the weapons, Fatshark, think what you are doing to them!!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gong to go cry over this ruined Kantrael.
But you don’t. You have a tiny sample size, and you’re pretending that it’s actual a good sample size by misunderstanding how a confidence interval works. No matter how many times you pretend it’s a good sample size won’t change the fact that it’s not. The claims you are making are not supported by the facts you have.
I appreciate the option. Although I do want change, I don’t agree with the rhetoric that comes from some people in that group. And I don’t my ‘want for better crafting’ to be used to claim that I think crafting is killing the game. So no thank you.
I think it is a good sample size. It meets the criteria needed for getting information. Several polls. Several discussions. So like most paradigms of Truth and information, may as well believe it unless something better comes along.
No problem.
It’s a biased sample population, not a random sampling of the players that it needs to be. It’s like looking in the complaint box at McDonald and pretending it’s a random sample of customers.
That’s just a bad take. You should believe in things that are supported by evidence. There is evidence that people don’t like crafting, and it should be changed. There is no evidence that it’s killing the game. There is evidence that it’s not killing the game. People keep coming back for new content and leaving again when the content dries up.
But that’s not exclusive either. For a chunk of people, crafting, or at least item acquisition is a part of the content of the game, and if it were better, maybe a chunk of those players wouldn’t have left at all. It’s causing noticeable damage to the game, at least in my circle of friends and other people I’ve met playing VT2. Most content introduced so far for DT has a short tail because the a lot of the foundational systems that should be supporting the gameplay (crafting being one) is pushing a noticeable amount of people away.
Not true. We have been over this, but you have no proof or reason to suggest why (if we narrow our conversation to fatshark forum polls) why a vast majority (95%) of people on the forums would all be biased towards hating RNG and crafting. Even if you say there’s a trend of people joining the forums specifically to complain, or because they’re more passionate and involved in the game, that exception or difference to the general population of players =/= inherent bias towards RNG/crafting systems in games. Out of the myriad of things to complain about, even if we said 100% of all forum accounts are created to complain about something, crashes, lack of content, etc. it would STILL not explain why ~95% of this group would all be in solidarity around RNG and crafting within darktide and other game systems.
It’s also true, however, that if you want to not waste your time you would want to poll people who actually WENT to McDonalds. Not truly random. Same with asking someone who has 20 hours in darktide and never levelled a single person to 30 what they think about crafting. If anything, it’s probably BETTER to engage a group that’s more passionate and dedicated and have put in enough hours as they have engaged with the “end game” of crafting in a meaningful way.
… that’s… that’s how science works. That is the BEST take to approaching knowledge. It’s practical. You reach a conclusion with the best information at hand, while also being open to it being disproven. Paradigm shifts are a natural part of the evolution of knowledge. If a model/theory explains phenomenon and experiments, use it. Humans will always have epistemic shortcomings and will never know the full picture. You make conclusions based on probabilities of accuracy and with what information you have at hand. There is evidence, a lot of people dislike crafting. Enough to suggest by all measures and models of gathering poll data (which don’t need to be random by the way) that there’s enough to reliably suggest larger patterns. It COULD be wrong. But chances don’t seem high, and without any poll, metric, or information to suggest otherwise, may as well use it to action something. Fatshark may as well action it, unless they have metrics to suggest otherwise. We’ll never know certain things. The past is dead and time moves in one direction. Things will always elude us. Use what you got.
Let me put it another way. Suppose every living thing on Earth dies. No more humans, no nothing. The infrastructure remains though. Aliens come down a century later to find our ruins and among them our computers and hard drives. Excited equivalents to human anthropologists and engineers among the aliens begin work on reconstruction and repair. They find ways to recover data storage on computers and even rebuild the human internet after many years with their advanced technological help. The scholars and researchers find this game called “Darktide” and recover all the information they can on every social media platform. This is the only information they will ever get to have because all of humanity is now extinct. It would be a valid conclusion for them to reach that it is very LIKELY a large majority of players were deeply dissatisfied with the crafting system of the game. They will never know for sure, nor can they get any further information. It would be a JTB (justified true belief) for all intents and purposes among the scholars and alien academics. MAYBE some new technology could break physics, go back in time, do brain scans of the humans to find the contents of their brains, and maybe you would be right and it was all some statistical abnormality or correlation and in fact most players were indifferent or liked it. This would cause the paradigm shift with this new founded knowledge. But such things are not possible. And if Fatshark really had any doubts they would ask. But they don’t need to. They have more info than we do, and it causes enough headaches for enough players for them to have said they will make future changes.
I don’t see any point in continuing this conversation. You’re not going to convince me your numbers are statistically relevant to show crafting is killing the game. I don’t have the time or the will to teach you enough about statistics so you’ll see it too.
Thanks for the respectful conversation.
I hope we get crafting changes soon.
Amen
Mate, where do you think you are? It’s a bloody video game forum. It’s not the responsibility of any of us to possess “statistically relevant” data. Which is great, because absolutely none of us do. You, me, and everyone else here only have anecdotal evidence to go on.
Demanding to see laymen produce “statistically relevant” evidence they can’t possibly have to refute evidence you also don’t possess is particularly churlish. It’s playground level arguing dressed up in fancy words.
Lmao. Yeah it’s kinda nuts considering they seem to agree that the thing they are debating about is bad. This thread is 100% corrupted by Tzeentch. Our minds are not safe here.
Yeah the crafting is bad. You have to roll many of the same type of weapon in the hopes you get one with a high base stat, distributed as you want. Then you have to roll at least 2 of 4 perks/blessings you actually want, and ideally the 4th level of each - the chance of which seems infinitesimally slim - never mind rolling one with 4 perks/blessings you don’t want to change. Which means you also have to purchase, upgrade, and melt several weapons in order to hopefully roll then gain access to the blessings you do actually want to put on the one out of hundreds you had decent luck in consecrating.
It’s a massive time and resource sink which more readily wastes that investment than producing anything you actually want to use.
It’s tedious, frustrating, uncertain and unsatisfactory - simple as.
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