Cooldown reduction nodes are overpowered

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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You could easily have chorus, Loyal protector, and psyker shield, up in ~20 seconds by using “Invocation of death”, “Go again!”, and “Wrap siphon” (Vet could have his skills back up in even less if lucky with specials kills), so what is the point of giving skills high cooldowns then giving players the tools to have them back up in less than 50% of the base cooldown? are these skills balanced around their base cooldowns? or the possible cooldowns after reduction?

IMO, all skill CDR nodes need to be remade completely, to offer a reasonible amount of reduction, or outright remove these nodes, and reduce the cooldowns of these skills to point the power of skill matches it’s base cooldown.

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It’s a problem that’s been pointed out many times over the years.
Let’s wait for the rework of the Zealot and Veteran skill trees.

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All classes’ CDR nodes need to be looked at, not only Vet and Zealot, and pointing out again again is valid till it gets fixed.

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“+X% ability cooldown regeneration for Y seconds on Z trigger” seems like such an obvious solution I’m really not sure why they didn’t implement it beyond evocation of death.

So long as the buff type is unique regardless of source, and cannot stack, it becomes possible to balance because the cooldown time is effectively locked between two fixed numbers.

To take an obvious example: If Psykinetics Aura gave teammates “+100% ability cooldown regeneration for 1 second” rather than “Decrease ability cooldown by 4%”, it would no longer be possible to instantly refresh an entire teams entire cooldowns by killing a large pack of elites. At best you could reduce their cooldowns by 50% if you killed one elite each second for 15 seconds (assuming they have a 30s base cd). In this best case you end up with cooldowns locked between 15s and 30s. Is 15s too short? Then just reduce the +x% to give a more balanced minimum.

Maybe one teammate is a Zealot getting +200% from thier class talent, but because it doesn’t stack they’re still at their own best case limit and getting their ult in 10s (which has presumably been balanced around because it is a fixed number, or would be if their other cdr talent was changed).

If all cooldown reduction was shifted to unique refreshing but non-stacking % cooldown regeneration, then every ult effectively has a fixed minimum regeneration time, which it is possible to balance around to make unreasonable ability spam rates impossible.

Tactical Awareness becomes “+100% ability cooldown regeneration for 6 seconds on specialist kill”, giving VoC at best a 15s cd (which is still 100% uptime on yellow toughness..)

Go again becomes “+110% ability cooldown regeneration for 1 second on stagger”.

Warp Charges become something like “+200% ability cooldown regeneration for [number of warp charges] seconds”.

The one exception to cd regeneration stacking should probably be concentration stims, because they’re supposed to make you do unreasonable things.

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And how many years will we need to wait for that? :joy:

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They are currently moving in this direction.

Ogryn’s rework literally had them rework Bruiser to work like this (100% regen over 3s on elite kill instead of 4%) and it honestly works quite well to me. Maximum Firepower also works like this (they also reduced it’s regen to compensate for bruisers change, so both are 100% over 3-4s upon their triggers), and the only exception they have is Go Again! which is an upgrade specific to Taunt. Which, I’d argue makes sense since being able to ‘spam it’ isn’t as overly impactful since you have to choose between it and Valuable Distraction, so either you’re making targets die super fast OR constantly making sure they are hitting just you and not tinies, not both, and it can’t break the other two abilities since it isn’t an upgrade for them.

Arbite also follows this montra, the ONLY CDR they have is in a Keystone, Malocator, and it’s 50% regen. The only other one is a capped 5 seconds off Break the Line if you hit a bunch of things, which is a one ‘hit’ use on cast so it doesn’t feel too insane (though the rest of the Arbite is busted to heck and back but it’s not really CDR that’s doing that).

To that end, I do think they are pushing CDR in that direction, which I think is the right choice. Zealot is the ‘oldest’ class right now, so I feel like they are getting a ‘larger look’ in the background and likely to get all their changes happening ‘all at once’. Veteran as Well is the second oldest, but could very much use this on their Tactical Awareness for a vast variety of reasons, and I’m thinking something will happen with them ‘when their weapon comes out’ that’s totally happening…totally (could be wrong though/they don’t pull the trigger on it because they don’t want to make people not like the new weapon).

And Psyker’s Psykinetic Aura already has it’s ‘death flags’ showing. Bruiser got reduced from 5% to 4% a decent bit ago, then (after an unneeded temporary Talent reshuffle) Ogryn got their rework and got it changed to regen. Aura got it’s CDR hit the same way (5% down to 4%), which makes me assume this is the ‘hay, community, have fun with this for the next while, as we are going to be changing this too’. Could be wishful thinking, but it’s a ‘trend’, and would make sense to me. Then they’d just need a Zealot tree rework (likely the next on the docket) and to poke Tactical Awareness/‘help Veteran’, and most things will be shifted to regen.

So while yes, ‘complaining about it more is good’, ‘data suggests’ they are doing this/slowly fixing it behind the scenes. This is also just FS…so like, give it another two to three years and the CDR will likely all be ported over.

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I don’t think there should be any CDR. No gold toughness. No ammo pickups.

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I agree with no CDR. I think gold toughness is okay. The whole point is you can balance it properly with cooldown.

Why no ammo pick up?

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No rending/ brittleness

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This is a controversial view and I’m not that hard on it as the gold toughness and CDR, but here’s my reasoning:

Just as the other OP stuff, having much ammo allows you to basically bypass much of the game. Look at the rumbler meta.

There are people playing Auric who never enter melee and just hover up all the ammo.

I much rather see a game where ammo is a resource we need to manage and we need to consider shooting something vs closing in and using melee. That’s not really a consideration now.

Give vet the ammo regen skill as a passive class ability. Up the ammo reserve of weapons a bit. Maybe there can be ammo crate and balance around that.

That way you can also make ranged powerful enough to take care of stuff without it breaking the game.

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I think rumbler is a bad example for this. When I play it with lucky bullet and vet aura I’m completely self sufficient. I think the ammo limitations in havoc have already lead to using more ammo efficient weapons.

I understand what you mean and I get the intention behind it, but ammo hungry weapons would suffer severely from this.

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two years for the zealot rework and maybe 4 for the veteran one

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