A Possible solution for CDR talents [Warning, Stinky Hot Take]

I got another odorous hot take to dump here, if only to clear it from my brain. You’ve been warned.


“What’s the problem with CDR talents”.

Considering the meta across all difficulties is to spam CAs as often as possible, CDR talents become a ‘must pick’, especially those that trigger off Elite/Specialist kills. Currently, FS has been trying to balance these out by changing flat increases into increased regen overtime, which definitely knocks them down on higher difficulties without hurting lower ones, but doesn’t change the fact that these talents ‘feel’ necessary.


Idea: Make CDR talents ‘tax nodes’, and/or make them exclusionary. Use them to bolster underperforming CAs/Auras while becoming unavailable for other options, or positioned in a way that all options get them without flexing, if the CAs/Auras are already considered ‘balanced’.

Some Examples:

Vet: Right now, the only issue here is that there’s a lot of VoC spam going around. This sucks double-bad because VoC doesn’t have to flex if it’s going straight down the tree, while the other two CAs are taxed x3. There’s a lot of ways to fix this, increasing the Cooldown of VoC or reducing the efficacy of Tactical Awareness, but that’s still assuming that Exec Stance and Infiltrate should be punished, are these CAs really that potent?

Since Exec Stance has its refresh mechanic and VoC is the one we’re concerned about, Tactical Awareness could be moved to underneath Infiltrate, arguably the one that ‘needs’ it the most, considering its larger CD.

Alternatively, you could swap these nodes. This wouldn’t fix the VoC Spam issue, just the added tax on Exec and Infiltrate, but you could always nerf VoC some other way.

Psyker:

The two big issues here is that 1.) Psykenetic’s aura is extremely potent, making the entire right side of this tree woefully unfavored and 2.) You can get both it and Seer’s Presence.

Consider splitting Psykenetic’s Aura, and moving them underneath both Kinetic Presence and Prescience. You can nerf one or the other or both, to balance out these auras (For example, KP’s PA would only trigger on Elite Kills, while Presci’s could be specialists kills, tweak the numbers to compensate if need be.)

Hell, you might want to nerf it regardless just because of power creep, I’m not opposed to giving it the Brusier treatment.

(Also, to clarify, you’d need to replace PA’s current position with a new node. Might I recommend “Quell Peril on Perfect Block”? )

You can buff Seer’s if you want (I wouldn’t, because Seer’s here would give you +1 node to play with and I think that’s a buff in its own right).

Zealot:

Zealot seems designed for high CDR, considering they have 3 CDR talents. But having to account for stacking CDR is a balancing nightmare.

Consider moving each tree’s respective CDR ability to a tax node under its CA, buff them if necessary, now that they can no longer stack.

This would also have the added benefit of giving Relic the least popular CDR talent, as it’s also the ability that 'aught be spammed the least. Considering it’s high CD and duration.

Ogryn:

Okay, I don’t think this idea would work for this operator. Considering the right half of the tree is currently the ‘most’ potent, a two node tax for CDR doesn’t seem unfair to me. And Point Blank Barrage, while needing the CDR a bit more, isn’t really a “I NEED THIS RIGHT NOW” CA, maybe I’m weird but I never felt the pain of its 80s CD and the two node tax, and more the pain of my low ammo reserves. I’d need a glugger main to verify this though, as my experience with PBB is limited.

If necessary, it could be a post-PBB tax node (Since loyal protector has its own CDR node). Or it could be swapped with one of the Blitz Tax Nodes to make it more easily available if one determines the tax on BR and PBB unnecessary.

Actually, if you really wanted to nerf the left tree a bit, you could simply move this from the middle tree to the right tree, requiring an additional tax node for righties and middlies. But I’ve no idea what to swap it with.

3 Likes

No to the idea to restrict gameplays…

To say it, on Zealot it is part of the gameplay that possibility to spam the ability. Other classes a little less than that.

Problem on zealot is not how and where are the CDR. And by placing like you want to place them, must say that it would not annoy me. I don’t use chorus and I pick always fury the faithful and also IoD. But I fear that, yes under chorus, it would be a tax node cause martyr’s purpose is useless. You proposition is in fact that a chorus user would not have a CDR node.

My opinion is that it should be balanced by class. So we should remove the bonus for the team of all talents. Not just CDR… Shield of contempt is pretty strong… VoC also.. etc. All talents that give a bonus to the team are too strong.
There should be only Auras that could give bonuses to the teammates and nothing else.

But if they don’t want to change all talents that give bonuses to the team (something I doubt would happen tbh), they should focus, as you did, on CDR nodes.
The CDR node of psyker needs absolutely to be a personal bonus.
Seer’s presence + psykinetic aura, this is clearly too much.

On zealot, IoD is so strong that it is totally dumb to not take it. It needs to be nerfed, because this is obviously too strong. Such ability refresh rate should be reached with 2 CDR, and not with just one too strong.
Martyr’s purpose has to be changed to something that gives a permanent bonus scaling on health lost.

Tactical awareness has to trigger on something else than killing specials. I think that a bonus on kill is not the right mechanic.

For Ogryn, at least here it is easy… no CDR.

EDIT: forgot Bruiser. Like for veteran, it should not rely on kills.

1 Like

That’s gonna be a very unpopular idea because taking away freedom will always be perceived as bad, but I also think the current trees just allow too much. Every single build bar none can grab the crit CDR on zealot. It’s just nonsensical. Why have choices if you don’t have to make any?

8 Likes

You might lose some freedom with this solution, but you also gain some back no longer having to flex for CDR.

I actually made a post like this in Gameplay Feedback as well, more centered on specifically Zealot though.

I’d personally be all for it, gives back some variety to the tree’s and makes it so there isn’t just ‘this one path’ for every build. I like it on Ogryn too because their CDR node is located right after the middle ‘25 toughness node’, which isn’t really a tax as you’re taking that on every build anyway, so it’s just like ‘ok, you can basically always have it if you want it’. So I’d like to see this, think it would be a nice way to allow some CDR nodes to still be potent percentages while not just breaking every CA at large (like taunt having to choose between damage and CDR).

1 Like

Out of all the solutions to the CDR problem I’ve seen, making them specific to the blitz in question seems to be the most interesting solution for sure. CDR can be fun, but just allowing it for trivial reasons like elite kills is pretty lame. Backstabs filling up stealth CD makes perfect sense to me, toughness damage taken to speed up psyker wall CD, etc… If it stays thematic and isn’t too easy to trigger it’s fine and would be fun

1 Like

this is an outright buff to zealot tho IoD is the best one by far and it auto procs from chastise and martys purpose does nothing and it becomes unavoidable if you want to take book

What? You can already take IoD and Chastise. Right now, you can take IoD, chastise AND Cut-throat. This solution would prevent stacking CDR nodes. Not being able to stack CDR is a nerf, not a buff.

If you really wanted to avoid CDR, they could make it a node branching off the CA, to satisfy the small minority of players who don’t take CDR. You know, the memers. The ones who meme.

But I’d assume that most sane folks would want any CDR they can get their hands on.

No longer being able to stack CDR also means they can buff Martyrs without worrying about it being used in combination with IoD and Cut-Throat

2 Likes

I think we need to rip the bandaid off and completely remove CDR from the game altogether (aside from Psyker aura) and scale the enemies back to compensate. Actives should be something to use with consideration, not to throw out willy-nilly when you’re in combat.

1 Like

you literally just cut 3 tax points from the most common zealot built path

well, if that’s the case, it would probably require a massive overhaul of Darktide’s combat, spawn system, and class trees, so I doubt Fatshark would go that far.
a much simpler solution would be to tone down overly powerful skills and CDR, and to buff or rework the useless passive abilities that no one uses.
it’s fine to have a few niche nodes when there are dozens of choices, but when there are only two or three options, there’s no point in having something like that.

If there’s a specific build you’re concerned about, you’re going to have to link it.

cant believe i have to explain this.
this is every zealot build and what you are purposing is a buff to every build that doesnt use blazing piety

That’s a +2 node difference, not +3, you’d still have to spend a point to get IoD. Where are you going to spend those 2 points to exceed the power advantage of getting IoD and Cut-Throat?

This?

i am posting the generalized path for marty and Ij builds what you are propping saves a 3 points for all builds using the most common zealot build path. which is a massive buff for them

Swift certainty…

You are perfectly right. It would be a large buff for my martyrdom builds.

Easier solution for Zealot would be, by selecting one CDR lock out the rest. No structural, tax talent or restricting choices issue other than the limitation of only 1.

1 Like

“this would also have the added benefit of giving (forcing players to take) relic the hands-down worst CDR talent in the game”

man you were not lying when you said this was a hot take

Better solution is to outright delete all CDR from the game entirely. Both from curios and talent trees.
There’s just no balancing it, because spamming combat abilities is objectively the strongest thing to do in this game and it always will be, because it is an auto-include.
It’s like Survivalist, getting free ammo every 5 seconds will always be better than 5% movement speed or 10% melee damage from some other random aura.