Chaos wastes update feedback

I usually play Cata Twitch CW with the people I know. Winning rate would be roughly around 50%.

About normal Cata CW QP, you need to understand that where I play, when I play Cata, I almost certainly end up playing with people I know. Not tons of Cata players here, only those who are dedicated remains. So QP isn’t whole lot different from premade. We hardly fail on normal Cata CW, and it is just a way to gather people so that we can launch a Twitch mode for the next game.

The bottleneck point in my experience is when the weapon updrade shows up. Even if you haven’t got any broken boons, if you have the right weapon with good quality, normal Cata CW can be pulled off. Things go south if your team haven’t got any good boons, and on top of that, there hasn’t been a good weapon upgrades till late game, and people start gambling their weapon and gets off-meta ones.

I don’t recall the names, but I’d like to know how many bannermen and bestigors spawn on Cataclysm from whichever one spawns those two. I believe sometimes with +monsters it also throws in a minotaur.

Well, I think we might have both regional differences and maybe some other things going on. When I play Cataclysm, I rarely see players I’ve seen before, but it is a small pool of players so I occasionally get the same ones. I’d say prior to this update, but after Grudge Marks were added the win rate was about 1 in 15. I often find players under 35, and people new to the challenge, or just not fully aware of the game mechanics. I’ll often end a game with GK having the most special kills, I’m assuming because ranged can’t hit them in the head and/or hit them at all often enough to kill them.

Now, here’s something interesting though. I do seem to win Cataclysm in Campaign more often than, or at about the same rate as Legend, even though I play it less often. I think this is typically because the players I find playing Cataclysm in the Campaign mode are generally better. Another reason might be I play Legend in the Campaign without curse resistance, and people there often are trying to get books. At this point, I’m just interested in skins that come often enough for me not to worry about Grimoires anymore, so I don’t even bother with curse resist.

Also, I’ll extend an invitation to anyone here to join me when I’m playing. There are just not enough people who regularly play Cataclysm for me to even try it out. My friends all play other games, and they’re not on often enough since we all moved to different places after the military.

Not a single Trial does spawn more than two different kinds of enemies and there is also no event which spawn Standard Bearer and a Minotaur.

That said, the event you mean is: “Bestigor-Kriegsherde” (don’t have the english names yet -_-). It spawns on Cataclysm

First Wave: 5 Beastmen Bestigor, 5 Standard Bearer
Delay
Second Wave: 5 Beastmen Bestigor, 3 Standard Bearer

And that’s it.

Seems bugged then, i´ve had this but 3 waves.

Seems unlikely, all the events I have observed works as intended. There is however the chance that you remember the event from before June 16th 2022 (Be'lakor enters the Wastes! Patch 4.7.1 Notes & Hotfix) which did:

" Reduced the amount and size of waves of Standard Bearers and Bestigors on the Beastman Chest of Trials challenge."

EDIT: Want also to add that I had the event just yesterday and that this is really all of it.

That might be the case; I haven’t had a recent instance where I got overwhelmed by the bestigor+bannermen combo. When I first played the chaos wastes it was more like three waves. Does which mission you’re on, the curse, or the mission modifiers affect how many spawn?

From what I see, no. Numbers are hard-coded to the difficulty. Modifiers influence only what Trial takes place and the curse has also no influence on numbers. Only in very specific circumstances it can influence the kind of trial or the fighting power.

Progress in expedition also seems to be irrelevant.

If that’s the case, then I think perhaps the problem isn’t so much with the chests of trials as with the overall difficulty compared to the campaign missions, especially given it’s less rewarding for the time put in; but it still seems that some of these are trials are wildly easier than others. 10 bestigors and 8 bannerman could easily wipe out many of the teams I’ve been playing with on Cataclysm. I think it was worse when we got the Warchief Minotaur grudge mark with Bestigors, and neither of those is unbeatable, but it is
way harder than a few black rats with shields or a few gas rats.

Can you link to that Github page? I’m curious to take a look myself. Also, is this game open source or something?

Has been forever but I never bothered to check until now because I was sure that the map modifiers did something and people in the Steam forum are advers to help out with simple questions -_-

Hm, not sure why it shows this part of the code. Click the link, there is a lot more inside.

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Some things in here like are quite a bit easier than others, no matter what team composition you have. 20 shielded storm vermin or 16 plague monks is nothing compared to fighting two grudge marks. The cursed chests too. I see the chaos spawn one I’ve encountered with 16 marauders.

There should be some diversity to the difficulty of these trials, but to have these numbers consistent from mission to mission does make the bottleneck point early on, which is what I’ve experienced. Having those boons from trial chests early makes a huge difference later on. With a choice among 3 boons, that don’t come at the expense of pilgrim’s coins, you’re definitely at a disadvantage if you don’t have them more often than not. If you try these early on, especially with curses, you’re going to have a mission that’s far more difficult than anything encountered in the campaign since you must use white weapons. On top of that, a patrol of about 24 black rats without any curses, and having your red items in the campaign is going to be easier than most of these trials.

I definitely think these trials should all have adjustments based on progress; just as grudge marks with 3 mods don’t appear in the first mission. In Cataclysm, a minotaur with a Warchief Grudgemark and elites spawning with him on top of his Warchief thing, it’s just ridiculous. Throw in Belakor skulls and such, and pretty soon you’re in an RNG situation that just becomes more frustrating than fun.

I disagree with the idea earlier posited that these trials to win. I think more often than not, having those early trial chest boons is going to be the difference between a win and a loss in the next few missions. Being able to Regen 1 in 3 health or get 2 health every second under 30% is huge. Something like double bombs, temp health after damage, ult restore on headshot, etc etc. is huge. I’ve lost about 16/16 cataclysm games and the majority of Legend games. Maybe everyone else here is having a grand time, and I’m the outlier, but those I’ve played with have similar thoughts and feelings.

EDIT: I got 1 cataclysm win today with some good boons early on and opened every trial chest; also, decent players.

I live in East Asia. Where’s your region?

I have to disagree with this. Outside of the Citadel of Eternity, there is only one chance to get double monster at the same time and they come with half health, so they are rather easy to kill. It is also easier to keep two monsters in view in contrast to multiple Berserker-type monsters. For me, the Plague Monks and Berserker are among the most difficult as they have three waves and attack very quickly. So, the composition makes all the difference. On the other side, the Banner/Bestigor people complain about, is among the easier Trials as I usually play careers around crowd control. And if you have someone with halfway decent crowd control, the event is not that difficult. For me, the new Chests of Trials are more consistent with the overall difficulty of the Chaos Wastes. Before it was “Oh great, another monster.” As for my quota, not sure. Yesterday, I did one and won that one, however it was partially based around the Morgrim’s Bomb exploit. The day before I did three and won one I think. Overall, I should be somewhere at 20 - 25 % for Cataclysm which is completely fine for me. EDIT: Got demolished today and yesterday. Am still okay with it. In most cases it was obvious where the mistakes have happened.

Personally, I also don’t think that Chaos Wastes Cataclysm should feel equal in difficulty than campaign. Different modes can have different difficulty feelings. Consider a Weave Champion map which can absolutely shredder normal Legend players.

Overall, there will never be something which feels consistent to all players as long as you have increased variety. Because as you can see, the Trials and situations you consider difficult are among the easier ones for me and vice versa.

Also, this is not a thing. Only one Trial with a Minotaur and it spawns Gors as addition. So if there have been elites, they have been from the Warchief mark.

Midwest US, Central Time Zone

Here’s my profile if anyone wants to add me and play. I can’t find a lot of players who que to play Cataclysm in the Chaos Wastes when I’m up late.

I didn’t know they spawned in at half health, but the classes I play usually stagger Berserkers or kill them quickly, such as GK, FK, IB, BH, Merc. I have noticed that other players do seem to go down very quickly to berserker swarms. I think Berserkers might just be something I spec for and so you might be right in saying they’re more difficult. On the mine mission in the pit, we kept having Chaos Berserkers spawn about 4-6 at a time in waves. The whole team kept going down till we were out of healing, but as GK with the shield, I could stagger them and had no issues. Yesterday we had a plague monk chest of trials on Legend, and as BH, I just duckfooted them all and carefully dodged. Everyone else lost and I was the only guy who could use the chest.

That’s great for you that you feel that way, but before the Grudge Marks objectively had more overall difficulty as you progressed because they got more modifiers the further on you went. Now, since they are the same no matter which mission you’re on, they are hard early on, and if you can take them early on, they only get easier and there’s no reason to skip them unless the team has members down, or you’re on some particularly nasty curse and nobody has got any decent boons. There are some trials that are much easier, but early on, as you said about berserker-types, you could get something much nastier than a grudge mark, and it seems to happen to me quite often.

Ok, but it’s also far less rewarding. If I were still trying to spec out all my careers with red gear, I’d be doing basic campaign missions, and avoiding the Chaos Wastes. If you like it that way, fine, but I don’t see any indication that it’s intended to be that way. In about the time it takes me to complete the Chaos Wastes on Legend if we win, I could get into lobby with Cataclysm players ready to do a Legend Double Emp Vault deed that’s about as difficult as Cataclysm, and we could do it several times; which is exactly what I do when I want more vaults. Unless the developers have abandoned the idea that rewards should match the difficulty below Cataclysm, Legend Chaos Wastes is too difficult.

Before Grudge Marks were introduced, I was doing the Chaos Wastes all day getting 3 emporer’s vaults repeatedly. After Grudge marks were introduced, I went back to doing Campaign missions till I got every career the red items I needed to play them however I wanted. Now, all that’s left are a few red skins.

That might be fine for you, but I think it’s even lower for the average Legend quick-play crew. I don’t think a co-op game should be shaped around the top-level player’s expectation of how often they should be able to win. My expectation would be that the top-level players are able to win much more consistently, while the majority of players have odds closer to 50:50.

The other elites were spawning with the waves of normal enemies; such as roaming bannermen specials and bestigors with beastmen horde. Then the Warchief Minotar was spawning in his. The Ironbreaker was AFK, so when we failed to kill the minotaur quickly on mission 1, it was over pretty quick.

I just played the event and i got 3 waves of both bestigors and banners, not one less and not one more…i didnt think to record it though :sweat:

The Bearers are spawned in with a delay after the Bestigors, but it is definitely only two waves.

Just got 3 waves right now on legend

I got a mixed package, the waves went like this :

Bestigors - delay - banners.

Bestigors + banners at the same time.

Bestigors - delay - banners.

Is anyone else feel weaker when playing in the Chaos Wastes with so many boons moved to weapon traits? Not being able to combine these boons also feels bad. They may be super strong but when playing the Chaos Wastes I do not feel as strong and it is not as fun.

It also feels like a nerf to no range careers. Getting Chain Lightning and dealing damage to multiple enemies was great and felt like it made up for not being able to deal with certain specials

Like the orbs are a neat addition but when orbs start spawning because I am fighting a horde, it definately feels like meh.

I have to add on the temper prices, direct upgrade from white to red price went from 320 to 500 pilgrim coins. I get making it more interesting to take steps in the upgrade but that feel prohibitif.
a 400 price would seems more reasonable.