Chaos wastes update feedback

Hello!

So having done a few runs in the newly updated chaos wastes i thought i´d drop a few impressions of mine here.

  1. Chest of Trials difficulty variance,

So these trials got a stealthy update to include new various options for possible foes that come forth. I find it to be great addition that has been pretty fun overall so far but i also find that the present pool is a bit too wide in floor to roof in difficulty.

Compare a horde of goat archers with no banners or armor to a double grudgemark monster spawn, or a chaos patrol/armored goat horde + multi banners. In the very first map. The difference is a bit too extreme! And i say that despite actually managing to steamroll those encounters due to a blessed damn footknight and trollpedo engineer keeping my poor ass company.

  1. Weapon upgrade/switch rebalance

Reducing the cost of switching and upgrading was something that really feels nice, i felt like i didnt get quite so shafted when i got a bad weapon roll. But i think it could be lowered more for orange/reds in a same level switch. This given that some weapons can really just screw you over pretty badly and those switches are still plenty expensive.

For instance, assume you are playing waystalker and you get serrated shots from a random boon, but you have moonbow/hagbane and thus your weapon is essentially disabled now. You switch…but you get hag/moon. So your ranged weapon is still disabled.

And to top things off you also roll two 1handed axes in a row, just in case you thought you could fall back on melee for a while.

3. New boons/weapon traits.

Some of them feel a lot like bloat/weird and unhelpful, i remember some manner of orb spawner with a long cooldown that gave a really minor buff for a couple of seconds.

If the rolls are gona be half good, half bad, then the random rolls should be cheaper yet.

  1. Be’lakor temple event

This was actually pretty fun, but the old problem of spawns happening ontop of you is really present and as unpleasant as ever, please look into it.

On that note, could we remove assassins jumping through other enemies? Or maybe just not ever have many assassins spawning at the same time with lots of other enemies? Getting jumped by 3 of them through a horde of maulers/bersekers with packmasters feel very cheap.

  1. Other

Oh and yea, the nurgle miasma curse is honestly horrendous to play against in the end maps with all their special&monster spawns, the difficulty spike is beyond nuts… Please consider removing this combination in its entirety because it´s existence is extremely jarring.

Oh and sometimes the +coins modifier still just doesnt seem to work. I went through the “The Pit of Reflections” and i think i got like 300-400 in total despite it being one of the last maps of a run.

Is anyone else getting a near impossible to defeat horde of bannermen and bestigors?

It is utter insanity to think this is NOT a bug. Each little spot on the ground spawns bannermen and bestigors at the same time. You often have around 12 bannermen and bestigors at the same time, and they just … keep … on … coming. I’ve only had a team survive this one time, and that’s on legend; can’t imagine what it must be like on Cataclysm.

Then the chest of trials on the next map spawns 6 black rats with shields and a few rats with shields that die in 20 seconds.

Eh its a royal pain really, trick is to have a frontliner to keep the bestigors busy while backline has an outcast engineer/explosive bombs going to blast the banner clusters. Optionally if there´s plenty of space, and time, you can just kite backwards and pick them off slowly.

Or just a bunch of archer goats and nearly nothing else, i was there after a double grudgemark that nearly wiped my team and my jaw almost hit the floor xd

Regarding weapon upgrade rebalance. If youre like me and go straight from white to red you got shafted, much more expensive now than before.
Edit: I post this because in og post it says “reducing the cost to upgrade and switching”, whereas for me it is the opposite.

Ah fair point, i missed it as i usually go to white-blue-orange/red, ontop of also actually just gambling away at random shrines of a higher tier than my present weapons.

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I do the same now because you’ll get shafted otherwise, but still, it is more expensive to take those early tempers. The red temper goes from 500 to 400 for blue to red, and orange to red is 500 to 350; that’s not savings, it’s just you get some use out of the other tempers if you get them earlier on.

If you get Belakor’s temple, you should have an extra coin which helps, but if you don’t, you’re going to have to save a decent bit or get lucky to afford 2 red items. Random boons now cost less too.

Now, as I’ve been getting red items, I’ve been noticing (maybe it’s just me), the weapons seem tailored to the class in terms of traits, which also makes them more valuable. I never seem to get a red item that doesn’t have a trait that pairs well with my boons and skills.

So you’re able to afford upgrades easier with all the changes; orange and red items especially being better, all that, and I still think the weapons are a bit too expensive. I often end up at the end of a thrifty run with only enough coin to get one red. Before the update, it was more feasible to save money for the red, now instead it’s incentivized to upgrade early, but still at a greater cost than before.

I think this is a calculated risk, any random boon or weapon switch can screw you in CW.

The main problem is when there is not enough space (or when your teammates are idiots who insist on fighting a lot of mass within the banner aoe, instead of withdrawing a little bit).

I used to do it, but depending on the character and difficulty, this may not be a serious option.

My use of the term “near impossible” is subjective; it could be easy for you, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s difficult; vastly more than many other trials. That doesn’t seem intentional.

You name the strategy, trust me, I’ve attempted it, so I don’t believe you. Nothing works unless it’s under the most ideal conditions. With a team of quick-play casuals looking to have a good time in Legend, I’m not having fun kiting them around by myself after everyone is down, waiting until some disabler swamped by bestigors takes me out, or I run out of dodge and stamina.

If you’re playing on Champ or lower, I’d imagine you can wipe out the bestigors fast enough as you kite around the group. This is significantly harder if not impossible on Legend or Cata because you can’t kill them quickly enough not to be overwhelmed or have more disabler’s spawn; same situation you’ll find with certain grudge marks. Without grand boons and high-power rated weapons as the bannermen easily move through the tide of bestigors that you can’t outright kill, and the banners do so with no collision and plop that banner back down interrupting your current action and causing you to get hit by 6 bestigors at one time on the spot by 6 blows landed at the same time.

I wouldn’t see my criticism here as an opportunity for you to offer whatever eye-wattering drivel you serve up as advice you want and I’m supposed to think that makes this NOT a bug or a mistake, when there is clearly a difficulty spike with certain chests of trials that is unparalleled by any working game mechanic in the chaos wastes. I don’t think a chest of trials is intended to spawn 2 what is essentially 2 beastmen patrols.

I’m kinda tired of having people use people’s criticism about anything related to difficulty as an opportunity to offer up some subjective opinion or useless advice; it’s a transparent bragging at the expense of having any kind of criticism be heard above the noise made by people defending broken game mechanics to stoke their ego.

Well to be honest that one example is on the extreme end, losing a buff or something isnt quite comparable to getting a weapon disabled. But i used it hoping that maybe Fatshark would finally consider patching it somehow to not be so damning.

It was fine when it was just a case of “do not select this combo before going into campaign”…but that choice doesnt quite exist in the wastes. This ends up magnifying the risk of random swaps without any extra profit.

I was primarily refering to cata, but OK.

Still, my point remains; and if you’re referring to Cata, and your strat doesn’t work on Legend, then that just makes it even worse.

What I am saying is that there are always screwed up situations, but that IME the huge majority of defeats - in this situation and elsewhere - are simply due to failed team tactics, often because of 1 or 2 players overestimating themselves and not paying attention to what (and where) others are doing.

To be fair here, if the strategy is “bring a trollhammer/bunch of bombs or pray that kiting is doable for everyone” then the scenario is kinda…polarized and unfun.

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That’s right,

And if you’re like me, hopping into quickplay where half the teams don’t have people with more than 100 hours, it’s just not going to work out well unless conditions are ideal and you have that team composition. In the quick play chaos wastes, in particular, your “strats” will never be enough to outweigh a new inept team and balance issues.

It should be known that right after an update, you will experience some balance issues and that the Chaos Wastes in particular have always been a mode where you can end up in literally unwinnable situations that you can’t “skill” your way out of.

Eh, honestly the banner spam can often kill even experienced cata team’s if it also contains armor and other chaff. They all get so damn bulky it takes ages to get through which makes everyone extremely vulnerable to specials and chip damage into getting down´d.

Like the bel-shaziir mine or whatever it is called and the event where you gotta toss 3 barrels onto a barricade to escape some demon´s feeding pit. Monsters pretty much always spawn along with whatever factions the map favors.

Which can include the ever terrible combo of minotaur+banner spam+bestigor+skaven packmasters&assassins.

IMHO, strategy should always be based on whatever the players currently have - and they can have just about anything.

Except the banner case doesnt really allow that, you only have the option of “break the banner or kite them out”. But kiting isnt always an option, which is where the problem pops out.

Well at least in first 3 or even 4 stages of the chaos wastes and the events there, campaign maps are easier.

I fail to understand what is wrong with the get out of the banner area tactic. Which so few people are willing to use. I have yet to encounter the situation where it was not feasible since the latest patch.