Ungor War Herd is a terrible trial, and should not exist.

Ungor War Herd if you don’t know, is the Chest of Trials pack that summons 3-4 War Banners per group spawn. They typically cover the entire area in their aura which makes the chest impossible to complete without having infinite bombs or high duration stealth.

I think this singular trial wipes groups more than anything that can ever be done in the game currently, and is so bad that it should just be gone. It feels terrible to play, is not fun, and seeing those three words when a chest pops up makes me want to leave and hope the other three get a trial chest that isn’t stupid. I would rather fight six minotaurs at once then ever deal with this untested trial. At MOST it should be 2 banners, and the next pack should not spawn until everything from the first pack is dead. But right now it just makes Chaos Trial chests too much of a roll of the dice, even if your build is somehow magically able to solo it (it won’t).

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It’s a bit too much in early missions, especially if you have nasty map modifiers like +hordes or +specials, and then Khorne champions or Tzeentch’s lightning bolts can turn a difficult situation into an impossible one for your average quick play team.

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Aye! In such maps its an option not to open the chest.

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Yeah xD same. If it dosent seem like i have the acceptable terrain to fight what may come at me i just…dont open the chest rofl. Too many people see a chest of trials as absolutely mandatory. Ive seen groups of 4…all four on are white health with one down left, one memeber dead and in need of rescue already and literally one HP pot between them and NOTHING ELSE still open a trial chest. Im like…WTF just skip it dude!

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I regularly play on Legend/Cata, so tips like that isn’t helpful. I’m talking about the trial when it comes to higher level players, so a story like that isn’t going to do anything except distract from the topic at hand.

Why should a chest have a chance to instantly lose a run with fully equipped players?

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To be fair, fully equipped players should not struggle terribly with this trial, that´s on them if they do. It can force them to be serious and punish mistakes but it shouldnt be a certain wipe by any means so far along.

But IMO it is pretty bogus to that such a trial can easily appear in the first few maps before anyone has any gear, like what are we to do? Skip every chest in fear that it might happen? Gamble away and just be like “aw we lost” when it comes up?

Having some sort of progressive difficulty increase is a normal and good thing, it has a place here in the sense of limiting this trial from appearing before the 3rd map or so.

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Dont speak like you talk for the entire playerbase here. YOU and YOUR players struggle with this trial on YOUR chosen difficulty. You said yourself that you play on legend/cata. It is your choice to play on a difficulty that you yourself have said you regularly can not handle this trial on. This does not make it the entire community’s problem. I fail on this trial from time to time but i also manage to push through it from time to time too and it always feels great when i do and ive seen plenty of people push through this trial on legend and stuff. If YOU struggle with this trial on the difficulty YOU choose to play…that does NOT make it terrible and does not mean it has no place in the game. To think the game should be balanced only around your chosen difficulty and skill is simply arrogant and that seems to be what your trying to put out.

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If everything is stacked against you like you describe, then yes, defeat should be possible, if not probable.

I haven’t had this chest event very often so I don’t want to say to much on it. But I think that all trials should be comparable. Some can be a bit easier, some can be a bit harder but they should not deviate to much in a vacuum. But map modifiers or curses should be, in by opinion again, able to shift this balance by quite a margin. Risk/reward, rng and all that.

I´d say its a bit more than that, for an early team in the first 2 maps without any number of good stuff in their bags the ordeal of 3 fairly fast spawning waves of banners + armor + chaff is horrible to deal with.

My only clear successes against them was having a trollhammer on the team blowing the banners from my backline to theirs followed by our team quickly nuking the armors ASAP…each darn wave. As for the hotfix nerf, i´ve no idea what they did but i cant tell the difference whatsoever.

If modifiers and curses are supposed to make trials difficult, then progress in the wastes should matter as well, but it doesn’t affect trial chests. You can get something stupidly difficult early on and something too easy later on. This happens in the extreme with trial chests, while no other game mechanic in the chaos wastes is so averse to scaling with progress.

But with the Bannerman and Bestigor tiral combined with Khorne Champions is vastly more difficult than any other trial is at that point in the game. I don’t have the numbers, but I know that Khorne champions buff each other and everything else. Combine that with the effect of a banner, which seems to double their health, and you got a challenge that is just stupid as you kite them around till you hit a dead-end trying to pick off banners; the longer this goes on, the more likely you’ll get split from the team and picked off by specials or stamina/dodge depletion.

With no majorly OP boons that have been removed like Tempest, Vaul’s Anvil, and Twined Arrow, and you haven’t got lucky with weapon traits, the best case scenario’s I’ve had for winning this are when the team abuses Trollhammer, Ult Cooldown boons (Hekarti’s/Xokha’s), and/or Morgrim’s Bomb with duplication; in fact, it’s almost dependent on strategizing your team around dealing with powerful groups of elites by using Trollhammer, Battle Wiz Coruscation/FlameWalk, and Stagger Tanks like FK and IB.

With the lack of decent ranged boons, if you’re playing BH or even the OP Bloodshot Waystalker, it’s not favorable late game due to the lower stamina and health pool since they can’t kill things fast enough at range like they can in the Campaign where you get to pick all your item traits and properties. Ranged classes seem to suffer more in the wastes since they depend on being able to hit breakpoints necessary to quickly dispatch threats before they get overwhelmed.

I’ve noticed the CW meta seems to have shifted in favor of specialized highly durable builds that Stagger a lot and/or can stack power bonuses. Damage isn’t a huge issue if you can eventually wear your enemies down as you constantly stagger them. To do this well, develop a durability pool with regen perks, temp health, and damage reduction; combine that with ability cooldown, and that’s generally the winning combo. Most other perks are just extra, but the ones to aim for consistently are durability or cooldown related. You might go for are power stacking boons or stiff that compliments specific talents, but you need that durability and those breakpoints for stagger. The meta is favoring stagger tanks that take out elites/specials now, rather than grudge mark killers; you only really need to worry about nasty grudge marks on the last mission and by then you either have the boons you need to deal with them, or you’re screwed anyway.

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Since you seem to struggle so much with this trial specifically i have compiled a list of tips for combating this trial specifically. Perhaps you can add them to your team to help mitigate team wipes from this trial.

1: FK kruber’s upgraded charge that lets you charge through armored enemies can clear a path directly to the flags. When followed by a quick moving charecter such as handmaiden or zealot this allows you to focus down flags

2:bardin’s trollhammer torpedo can destroy flags from a distance if aimed well, this is especially usefull when combined with the charge mentioned earlier, allowing for a clear shot.

3: warrior priest of Sigmar has a talen that grants you trample over lesser foes when he shields you, this combined with the explosion at the end can make approaching the banners not easy but…easier.

4: battle wizard’s explosive teleport can be used to close in on banners effectively IF SUPPORTED and often allows focusing down a single troublesome banner Note: GET THE ABILITY TO USE TELEPORT TWICE IN A ROW (its a talent) if you do not this has a high chance of being a one way trip.

I do hope these tips assist you in some way and help you avoid wipes in the future :slight_smile:

@Enju

I hear being a jerk while putting words in someone’s mouth won’t get people to listen to you. Weird, isn’t it? If you think that will do anything helpful, go touch grass.

That being said, you at least tried to give some advice. Normally I pug these groups and do not have pre mades, so these classes are frankly non existent outside of trollhammer And BW. Assuming none of these are there, how would you be able to do this without endless bombs? How would you support a Sienna who’s flame walking while you have stuff on top of you that will not die and has an immensely higher stagger rate?

Does that limit my weapon choices to actually clear the trial itself?

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Pray that kiting works, or you´ll get cornered and die, as for supporting a BW teleporting around, you cant as far as i know. Especially not with armors ontop of you already.

To a degree its unfortunately true that the wastes limit your weapons regardless of this trial or not. Like for instance the elf longbow is utterly sh*t to start with on her there because she cant even single headshot-kill stormvermin with it. It gets workable if both your weapons hit the blue level but before then is a big no-no.

Several melee weapons are also horrible, but that holds true for any character.

Hate to dogpile on, but you’re a little late to the party when it comes to “advice”. I’m clearly not the only one who has issues with this challenge, because it’s a co-op game, and every single player I’ve played with has issues with this challenge. Any that have claimed not to have issues with the challenge in my team have failed when we started playing. I’m constantly getting feedback from players as I play in Legend and Cataclysm; it’s more confirmation than it is denial at this point (aside from a few forum users). The invitation still stands to add me on Steam so you can put your advice to action because I’ve yet to see any of it to be reliable.

Probably already should know by now, that your suggestions have already been made by others, and despite the fact, that there are tactics that help, they have already been put to use in many playthroughs I’ve done, and they don’t change the fact this trial stands out as being aggressively less balanced, so those suggestions are entirely irrelevant at this point. You’re anonymous on a forum, no need to posture or let me know how wonderfully it works for you because it doesn’t matter to me, nor does it change my experience, nor do I believe you to be an expert.

It’s extremely obvious that no matter how “difficult” the bannermen challenge is to any one person it stands out as being more difficult by far than many other trials, and trial chests (unlike every other mechanic in the Chaos Wastes) trials don’t get more difficult as you progress making them more difficult early on and less difficult later on when you have better boons and weapons. Nobody addresses this, they just want to throw in useless advice.

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Not to be a jerk but the advice you’re offering is rather obvious, and ofc on Cata things get far hairier as well. The other obvious thing, though all to rare in many pugs, is to use potions and bombs. The amount of times I see people NOT using consumables for trail chests is mind boggling.

As far as tips go (Cata), my buddy and I have found that kiting backwards, using the terrain and slowly chipping away at them to our advantage seems to be the most consistent way of beating it. Bannermen will pickup the banners and reposition. It’s still a huge slog but manageable, barring stuff like hordes, specials and banner box located in unfavorable terrain (cliff edge).

That being said, this trial definitely needs to be a looked at as it reduces most pugs to tears and wipes. Adding Khorne grudge-marked and get it early and you may as well run and collect as many coins as you can and pray for a quick death in most cases.

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Considering the balance of war banners is that you’re punished for letting them plant it, summoning 6 in the middle of a giant mixed beast horde is just stupid. If the banners followed ‘normal’ special spawning in CW you could at least attempt to hack up the horde a bit before they get buffed and snipe a bannerman or two before they drop it.

Definitely overtuned because they tossed their own game mechanics out with this trial.

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