The other best hold on that map is just right next to the medicae. You can just close the gate there and its fairly safe as long as you stay alert to bursters, flamers and snipers. The shooters will stay posted up top but not really bother you.
Its the exact same issue as the entry gate.
I would just like to say that at higher intensities where youre constantly flooded in mobs while elites and specialists frequently spawn all over the place to mix into the horde or rain down on you there isnt really the breathing room for people to engage with those mechanics anyway, even just breaking into the centre and doing the last task can be hard to coordinate.
As @Reginald correctly points out, if people couldnât use the entry way to hole up in theyâd just shift to the next convenient bottleneck like the gate next to the medicae or one of the stairwells, sure you interact with the gate when youâre camping right in front of it, but id hardly say thatâs really people going out of their way to engage with the mechanic.
Rather than close off the enterance entirely they just need to make it a less ideal bottleneck. Put a service door or two that hordes spawn out of behind you and make the railings along the top have more places for enemies to shoot and drop down from. There are ways to bring challenge back into the finale without trying to railroad players into playing the encounter âas intendedâ.
Honestly I donât really know what they were thinking with the arena design. Everyoneâs instincs will scream at them if they try to hold the low ground and the heavy ranged enemy spawns only support this. Same with putting yourself in a situation where you can be surrounded.
While I agree the entry hallway isnât fun to hold out at, there is no fun place to holdout at the end. If youâre up top youâre standing right next to 2 spawn doors which is super dangerous if a poxburster or insta shot trapper comes through.
While it is a bit more dangerous especially if a Bomber gets a good throw, or a Flamer gets a chance to fire, holding at the right side gate is also a strong if boring option and lets you close it as well.
Itâs alright on smelter complex because the waiting and fighting only lasts for a little bit and you only fight melee enemies, although I would like to see a boss spawn at the end still. Maybe on Carnival as well?
Some endpoints have different spawns. Like smelter complex spawns almost no ranged enemies. If carnival had ended with you holding the arena and literally locked you in with nothing but poxwalkers, groaners, crushers, bulwarks, ragers and maulers and bruisers pouring in to hit you with literally 0 ranged enemies this would actually be fun to hold in the center. Instead the stands teem with ranged enemies and its much safer to just break their LOS rather than try to shoot them one at a time. ESPECIALLY considering fatshark just nuked how frequently ammunition spawns and made shooter-vet a down machine. Like honestly its the worst of all possible worlds There is nothing BUT incentives to not hold the middle and instead to hold a secure choke point. IMO it canât be anything but the ineffable design intent since all the incentives are so perfectly aligned. They want us in a choke fighting a one front battle with disruptors spawning in behind. If they didnât they would have made everything about the last hold different.
I disagree. I think they want us in the middle doing an epic arena fight while playing on Malice difficulty.
Well. There are good players who optimize any problem by finding the best solution. Then there are crazy good players who do whatever the hell they want and get away with it even if its a bad idea.
We should see which we are some time and just stand in the middle and see what happens.
Who knows? Maybe if you can manage to close the gates without getting shredded itâs easier than we think it is.
Although I assume that the gunners accurately shooting you from 30-50m away is still going to be a huge problem.
(Side note Dreg Gunners are insane for being able to stand still and hip fire these massive heavy stubbers accurately over long ranges. I know they have bionic eyes and probably light Nurgle corruption but that thing is huge.)
To be fair the girth of the weapon probably helps with managing the recoil actually.
Managing recoil? Maybe, although there would be zero accuracy and trying to change targets while shooting would be near impossible.
I vote to keep.
Players identifying a choke to hold the mission together is not cheese imo, its teamwork.
What is cheese? Standing on top of the stairs by the exit where enemies cannot melee you.
Knowing Fat Shark I think they will tweak that area by putting a man-hole with enemies that spawn underneath like they did with Consignment Yard and Enclavum Baross. Probably wonât happen for a while though.
In my opinion, Fat Shark missed a really good opportunity with that event. After the event has started they should have the team HAVE to work together to close the side-gates to prevent spawns, and then once the flare is lit they have to stay in the middle with the flare while Masozi drops in and picks them up. That would have made the event more fun and hectic.
Itâs not cheesing, itâs just a very boring position especially for how long the end event is.
Yeah but it is on top of it already being a long mission.
Thatâs what I did in Righteous Stand and it worked out fine more often than not. There werenât any ranged enemies to worry about at that time, thoughâŚ
It definitely makes it easier, but itâs not exactly a tough event anyway even if you donât close them OR use the cheese choke. Itâs only difficult if you try to hold the middle, and thatâs only because of the overabundance of highground shooter sightlines and the difficulty in fighting back against them.
That first event with the terminal has a way higher failure rate than the end event, even when you donât abuse the entrance choke.
IMO this event (and that first one) suffers from the same issues as some of the other recent maps (looking at you, ascension riser): Continually streaming in enemies from literally every direction, all at once, in an arena with poor protection from ranged enemies, isnât conductive to a positive QP/pug experience.
I totally get that a lot of people like that pure defensive corridor-holding thing, but god damn is it boring when itâs literally just standing there clicking lmb until the timer ends.
What youâre describing are two different skill sets. One is strategic skill for identifying optimal defensive positions. The other is technical skill when it comes to the raw execution of tactics and combat. Good players tend to have both but you can have extremes on both ends. You can have a player that knows the optimal solution to the problem but is just butterfingers with poor reaction times that hampers his ability to execute. On the other extreme you might have some slip and slide knife zealot thatâs nearly untouchable to the AI but he might actually make the run harder for his teammates by pulling more aggro than his teammates can deal with as mindless dashes around while triggering every ambient and tripping a monster spawn.
I donât see the issue with the entryway at the end of carnival. How is it different than any other âSURVIVE!â event? Theyâre all relatively boring victory laps if your team is halfway competent.
These finales all play out essentially the same way. The team digs their heels in at a defensive location and just camps until the event ends. Ascension Riser is slightly more dynamic since it has the short detour to pop the buboes that takes a minute. Consignment yard now has its monster spawn.
Thereâs nothing fundamentally different about Carnivalâs ending. It just feels stale since 80% of quickplay missions are sending us to it these days. Fatshark will probably put some monster closets near the start, some of those groaner floor vent spawns, and maybe toss a monster spawn at us and call it a day.
This sort of gameplay definitely isnât DTâs strength.
SURVIVE events are just the simplest and easiest of the objectives. The game has to have some levels that are more straightforward than others. The oddity about Carnival is that it is essentially the SURVIVE version of Hab Dreyko in that it essentially has the same event style for both the mid-mission event and the finale. The initial data-interrogator event in carnival is unique in that the data interrogator is completely autonomous and can be left unattended until completion. This essentially just makes the first event another SURVIVE moment.
Another potential change that they could make to spice things up would be to take another page out of Hab Dreykoâs book and make the post-finale extraction more hectic. Consider for a moment if we remove the âclear the remaining enemies out of the arenaâ stage. Instead the enemies continue spawning as the valkyrie flies in and lands. The team would then need to move under fire to reach extraction. You might even want to go a step further and randomize where the valkyrie lands so that your camping spot isnât always optimally positioned relative to the valkyrie.
I agree in spirit, they need to minimize the extremely cheesy spots on this finale. I played it on release and it was so fun holding the bottom floor with all the props in the area as cover.
Solid.
They should just imporve the ai for gunners/shooters/specials. If you camp like that there should be ranged enemies on the handrails above shitting down on you.