As title. Sick and tired of people hanging super far back in the finale entryway to cheese the finale. It completely ruins an otherwise great mission.
13 Likes
Ah no I love that spot! Maybe a sewer grate spawn to keep you on your toes, but removing it as an option weakens the finale imo.
I had a go at holding the top of the arena, but itâs all doors and gunners up there. Doable, but little gunmen are always karking shooting youâŚ
6 Likes
Top of the arena is manageable tbh. The problem is that you get people staying really far back to âstop rear spawnsâ while anyone dealing with all the enemies approaching from the arena gets a faceful of bullets - but the people at the back (usually vet/psyker since theyâre less suited to melee) refuse to come forward to deal with the ranged enemies because they might have to deal with a trapper from the back (ohh no the hardship).
Blocking the entryway would at least stop people from cheesing it and prevent those (terrible) people from hanging back just to stop spawns. Not to mention hiding in the entryway essentially wastes all the effort put into the arena design, since it never gets used except when running to the button or the extraction.
1 Like
Yep Iâve noticed that shooters like to congregate in the centre of the arena where they can reach you, and if you donât have someone gunning them down theyâre an issue (particularly that one long-range gunner by the crate in the backâŚ). So itâs not all roses in the glorious alleyway but at least youâre only getting shot from one direction!
That being said, me and mine (pubs mostly) usually congregate at the mouth where you can still poke out and nip flamers/gunners/trappers in the bud before theyâre an issue. The specials spawning behind just get handled the old fashioned way.
I see where youâre coming from that itâs problematic that a) you can have one player sit at the back to nullify spawns and b) that player is otherwise less useful and doing something a bit slimy. So I think thereâs some sensible grounds to make changes there.
I do think thereâs utility in that small vestibule in that ammo often spawns in the crates there which you may need during the hold, so it would be interesting to see if thatâs affected.
As much as I love holding the corridor (yep, because itâs the easiest place to mulch hordes, sue me), I do long for the fantasy of holing up in the centre of the arena (or just in the damn arena) and letting the hordes stream towards us from all sides. I think some more cover would make it do-able, although Iâm not sure that was the intention of the level designers⌠having the flare spawn there makes me think itâs more of a get-in-get-out type of affair.
Itâs just⌠when it comes to being shot to hell, or having a relatively smooth finish (barring exploits) Iâm gonna take the smooth finish almost every time!
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If there was effort put into the arena design, then I sure hope it wasnât a lot.
Because itâs a huge waste of time.
A very long mission, followed by a long, drawn out survival section in a large, open space, with no incentive whatsoever to not stay in some chokepoint.
Going into this section without a competent psyker or 2 ammo auras is downright painful, and I agree with everyone trying to make it through this with as little effort as possible.
Because a few minutes of boredom are a lot more palatable than throwing a run for the sole reason that âitâll be more fun that wayâ. 
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I honestly like it as now⌠plus the map is already pretty hard, I like the âdefensiveâ final
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Iâm with ya soul23, I enjoy the end battle. If youâre starving for a challenge then thereâs other ways to do it!
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Absolutely. Itâs like that corner at the end of Righteous Stand where people would cheese the whole event. I was so happy when they blocked that corner up with clutter so people couldnât do it anymore.
The ârear spawnsâ (ie, the specials that magically appear out of thin air and the guys who drop over the railings) are literally the only potential threat in this scenario.
The whole area should be gated off once the event starts. Or if they donât want to do that, there needs to be a big olâ ball of ogryns at some point so people are forced to do something than stand on the spot and hold lmb.
That said, the centre of the arena is a deathtrap and the upper segments arenât ideal places to take fights either. I think the whole arena needs looking at, to be honest.
5 Likes
Fighting around the middle area near the walls, the cover pieces and the stairs has been a lot of fun in my experience. Much better than holding up the top area where enemies from really far have clear shots on you with no cover. Either way Iâd also like it if there was a drop-down point at the beginning so you arenât incentivized to cheese the event.
I think they need to do something about ranged enemies on the high ground if they want us to fight on the low ground.
Ranged enemies set up behind the railings and shoot almost directly down onto you. While they can just thread a needle through the thin gaps in the bars, the railings often block return fire, which is just needlessly painful when youâre also trying to fend off melee enemies.
The fix could be as simple as widening the gaps between the railing posts and moving the railings back from the edge a little to control these shootersâ angles.
3 Likes
You do have plenty of cover and moving space on the ground floor at least, but yea that thing with enemies being able to shoot through solid metal fences is BS, they can do it from any angle even where returning fire is literally impossible. FS could just fix that by either making enemies unable to shoot through it, or letting players shoot through it as well.
2 Likes
Needs a forced drop
The cheese is annoying for several reasons, but the funniest one has to be that teams wonât do the cheese right resulting in split groups lol.
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I disagree, This and the smelter are the only maps with a nice single chokepoint.
I say keep the chokepoint, but alter it a little bit, remove the metal fences from the sides, so that enemy shooters can come and shoot you from above, and increase enemy spawns overall by like 50% so theyâre an absolute tsunami of nurgle pox coming at us at all times.
That would make it exciting
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I say keep it. And encourage it. Itâs something different actually having a manageable choke point. Maybe increase the number of enemies. Or a guaranteed monster to spice things up if the team is there.
Honestly the arena style ending would feel better if you maybe had a boss or objectives around it. But itâs just hold your ground. And gunners and shooters mess up your aiming and hit you from across the open map depending where you are.
6 Likes
They just need the âgate closingâ mechanic to not be the way it is. Instead of just sitting on our buts there should be objective markers to seal entry points. I mean we are magically carrying two wall charges so way not have some demo charges to destroy entryways or weld shut doors?
The choke point strat exists because it is a mission that takes 30min on a good run and 35-40+ on a normal run (I hate this damn map because of the length). Fighting it out in the center or up top or swapping gate to gate with the dumb gate closing mechanic is just asking to wipe, losing 30+ minutes of your life for nothing.
The coke point is actually quite fun since there are very few instances like that on the other maps where you just sit there and mow down waves of enemies. It is the strategically most viable point in that arena to hold for the frankly entirely too long wait for first nothing? (no really when we interact with the drugs first why is there a long segment of just fight and then after that you put a flair and wait some more then you have to clear the dumb ai that have gotten stuck in the corners? It is a needlessly long segment) Then wait for the extract to get there, then to clear the area.
I hate this new mission. FFS give us another mission on this new tileset so we donât have only this one overly long mission to do on it (seriously a 45+ second, depending on team sprint speed, run to the wall to actually start the mission⌠why?)
That does indeed sound like every mission.
Sometimes itâs just 30.
Itâs the calm before the stormâŚ
A chance for a little radio banter between the higher ups.
Sets the tone of the mission, and paints a picture of the larger world around our little strike team.
Just today I heard from the rare Shipmistress Brahm â I donât think Iâve heard her since installing a mod to skip the intro!
Not to mention all the opportunities to stop and stare at the architecture, wait for team mates to wake up, or scratch your nose.
Plus itâs an opportunity to practice your fabulous pirouette slides!
The intro sequences hold a lot of flavour, which I appreciate 
The gate-closing mechanic is obviously intended to be part of the finale, helping keep spawns manageable etc. Yet since the map launched Iâve never touched them even once (hell I didnât even know they existed until I read about them). The first ever time on release day I finished it up top by the trigger button and every.single.mission.since has been the entryway chokepoint cheese.
Fully agree on reworking the gate closing as finale objectives. At least then holding the arena would be relevant; it certainly isnât now, the arena may as well not exist. If the arena and upper levels need a bit more cover to make them more viable, Iâm all for that too - but Iâve no way to really tell since outside of that first ever try, every run has been chokepoint cheese.
Disagree on the chokepoint being fun though - itâs only fun the first or second time, then itâs either a snoozefest (if shield psykers and/or players that donât hang back) or a text chat argument (if half the team hangs back and basically does nothing useful âto stop rear spawnsâ). Iâve even seen players insist on holding by the entry door to the chokepoint tunnel (where the supply boxes are on the way in), which is so braindead it actually hurts (one bomber and its all over). All the chokepoint options make pugs more toxic and ruin a good mission.
The only surprise tbh is that the map designers didnât see this behaviour coming. Closing the entryway off at the arena with a big gate or something seems like the only option to me.
Plenty of maps have good chokepoint, just not in the finales. But each finale is designed to work a certain way, and Carnivalâs finale is very plainly meant to have players in the arena closing gates to reduce spawns and/or supporting from the top - not cheesing it in the entryway. Within the first day of the map releasing the chokepoint cheese became the only thing pugs are willing to do, and thatâs a massive shame (not to mention the arguments it causes about how far back to hold etc.).
Yeah, this is the source of most of the arguments Iâve seen. You get players trying to hold the chokepoint and getting whaled on by gunners/shooters, players hanging back and doing almost nothing to stop specials spawning at the rear, and even a rare subset of players that want to hold where the supply boxes are on the way in. Cutting the entry way off so players are forced to use the arena or the upper levels would put a stop to that almost immediately.