Lingering Flames tick rate got buffed to be doubled more than 2 years ago and it’s like the one really shitty balance choice still hurting the game IMO.
Can we please bring it back to normal again? 1x tick rate instead of 2x.
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Will you tell me the one or two builds LF is most broken with?
My, ah, friend wants to know.
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Looks to me that lingering dot ticks are only bugged on some staffs, like flamethrowers. On other stafs like conflag it seems normal. Maybe some staffs fire dots Bug out with lingering or famished. I hope they dont ever touch the lingering dot code as in the past this always ended badly.
Are they even listening to feedback or working to balance the game anymore?
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I assume a CM will eventually report Harridas’s suggestion, wheels at FS will duly turn, and eight months later Scryer’s Gaze will get a buff.
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There’s a bugged interaction when fully charging flamestorm staff that causes the DOT’s damage output to be way higher than what’s expected or would be reasonable.
But besides that, Conflag is a very good fit with Lingering Flames as it has infinite cleave & huge stagger power. You could even use a bolt staff for sniping and apply LF with just pressing F and your melee weapon, it’s still incredibly strong.
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Ah, thanks.
I haven’t played BW much, and generally went with Famished and Beam. With Sienna, I’ve mostly enjoyed Unchained and trying to make Pyromancer work. I’ll likely try LF and Conflag. “Eventually everything burns to death” doesn’t strike me as a fun mechanic, but scattering rats with Conflag is.
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I think it’s hardly the talent most in need of tweaking. Flamestorm secondary fire (getting double DOT) is a bug.
I’ve played with Famished Flames, Volcanic Force, and Lingering Flames; and they all have their place, but when using high DOT (non-bugged) weapons like Beam Staff it’s a little silly how fast it melts things. I think 1.5x DOT tick rate instead of 2x. It used to be it was a very niche talent that had almost no real use. I prefer how it is now to how it used to be, even though I would agree it could be nerfed, and it’d still be really good.
One thing I’ve enjoyed about it, is that it revived my interest in using other staves that really benefit from it like Beam and Conflag. I’ve also changed how I use Flame Sword, because I don’t need to constantly re-apply DOT, I simply light em up, and then use it like an actual weapon, instead of a repeat cleave/DOT exploit weapon.
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This is something I found for myself really appreciating too.
Thanks for putting it into words
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A 1.5x tick rate would at least be better than the current iteration that kind of just invalidates famished flames almost entirely save for the boss damage on beam staff. (Assuming you have the freedom to just hold M1 the entire time)
Even then, I think it’d be better to got back to a 1x tick rate so that there’s a clear cut difference in usage between the lvl10 talents. Lingering Flames before the buff was still strong on Cataclysm without being as absurdly OP as it is now.
Did a 2x tick rate do this for you or just the talent’s function itself? You were always able to use lingering flames like this and it was very effective back then too except for beam staff due to how lingering flames didn’t overwrite weakers DOTs until they changed it.
That one kinda blew except for very desperate insances like a Sienna setting as many targets on fire while kiting them all day in circles but can’t afford to fight back or rescue allies. Otherwise any other choices would out DPS it greatly.
Even if a little overtuned its atleast a more common pick rather than that entire line being dominated by Famished Flames.
I never found pre-buff Lingering Flames particularly “strong” or “very effective” in Cataclysm. To me, it felt more like a niche gimmick that only shines if you’re highly skilled at constant kiting. Even then, the old Famished Flames performed better in that role, especially when paired with Coruscation for sustained pressure while repositioning.
I also don’t see it as “absurdly OP.” I can achieve comparable damage numbers with Famished Flames using Flame Sword and Fireball Staff, and with Volcanic Force running Bolt Staff. In that context, it doesn’t clearly outclass other options.
If anything, Lingering Flames leans closer to being overpowered MAINLY because of survivability. The ability to ignite enemies and disengage safely while dealing damage is strong, yet even then, the raw damage output isn’t outrageous for Battle Wizard. I think reducing the tick rate from 2x to 1.5x would probably fix it.
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Well, yes, this is the main issue. Being able to deal so much damage, more than what Famished does, with so little effort or risk involved is what I call overpowered. You don’t have to put in the effort, time or risk of repeatedly applying DOTs while you effectively have higher DPS against enemy groups (in a horde action game) than what Famished can offer (except for Coru staff IIRC).
And keep in mind Famished got nerfed to 100% while Lingering Flames got buffed to have double the tick rate so Lingering Flames became a significantly stronger option while almost removing any comparatively viable use cases for Famished Flames. Famished Flames should be the high DPS DOT option but instead Lingering Flames is.
Remember you can just tag enemies with a DOT and fight them like normal while you still have the freedom to do whatever else, including tagging more enemies, with the already burning enemies continuously losing health almost for free. This was and is very strong to do with Conflag staff constantly staggering all non-monster enemies in a huge AoE while applying LF.
Nah man, old Coruscation staff was a problem moreso than Famished was and I figure they nerfed Famished in part because they fixed Coruscation to make it work with Famished.
And to repeat myself, it’s fine and even good for the other talents be higher DPS options. That’s how it should be given the incredible safety and flexibility that Linger Flames offers.
I would take a 1.5x tick rate since it’s preferable to not changing it but I’d like have it go back to 1.0x as normal.
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Mostly agree.
Not stacking burn is a real downside though. Even now, I’m not convinced Lingering outperforms Famished purely for damage. Famished likely didn’t need the nerf, Coruscation was the real issue.
Lingering can outperform in solo or low-DPS groups where you can kite and let burns tick, but that’s not my typical experience.
There are bigger balance concerns to me, if I may use a “whataboutism”. Even on a max-DPS Battle Wizard, I don’t usually match what I can do on Necromancer. Duckfoot pistols. Hagbane, Waystalker ability spam, dead talents, Chaos Waste bugs, etc.
Lingering Flames damage is an issue, but it doesn’t rank highly for me.
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My unprofessional testing of
Famished flames vs 6 SV & 6 shielded SV
Lingering flames vs 6 SV & 6 shielded SV
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Whoa, that is pretty crazy. You didn’t even touch them after using your ability. Reminds me of back when flame walk would wipe patrols. I see your point now. Is this on Champion or something? In both they died way quicker than I expected.
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Cataclysm I forgot to mention that, it’s kind of my default difficulty. Do you grasp now that doubling the DPS on lingering is kind of insane?
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YES, now I see. I guess I just haven’t been playing Battle Wizard enough to realize.
I did solo Fortunes of War on Cata back when Lingering Flames was stacking. I bet I might be able to do it if it kills that fast on Cata.
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Not only its op on Cata, the weaves are cleared much faster now with the new lingering. Ulgu now BURNS, Chamon chaos warriors now BURN as well. They need to revert it.
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This is genuinely shocking but also makes me wonder how they compare across different dot sources.
Like do we know what the stats on the ult dot actually are? If it’s high base damage low base duration I can see how it would create the perfect storm for this talent.
Not trying to argue with you here just trying to consider multiple possible cases to evaluate the problem properly. If the performance comparison between famished and lingering is more in famished favour for other dot sources maybe a combined approach would be in order. Like if the ult is in fact high base damage low base duration (I struggle to comprehend those kill times otherwise) then another knob that could be tuned here is doing something like halving the base damage of the ult dot while doubling its duration, effectively halving the DPS of lingering while leaving the total damage dealt the same for non lingering builds (albeit a bit slower to apply that damage). Then perhaps you could tune lingering down to 1.5 now the main problematic interaction has been addressed.
Again all hypothetical based on how it performs for other dot sources. If it is consistently on par with famished then yeah just take it back to 1x tick rate because it provides way too much safety to get to put out near the same DPS.
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