Oh, that’s what you meant.
I did not even take into consideration the size of the weapon…
Can you get real bursty with the Gunpsyker? Yeah, but you’re having to work harder and consume more to do it than the Veteran will.
If running good gear, either is going to be plenty killy, the raw damage output isn’t really the issue (I’m not sure the Psyker can outburst the Vet, haven’t gotten deep into the math, but we’ll set that aside for now), the ability to aim and put shots on target and keep shooting is what’s going to matter. The Psyker’s gameplay is more complicated, and is then taking squad consumables that they otherwise would not if they were running a Stave, and can’t stretch those consumables as far as the Vet can between gear and talents. The Psyker also lacks abilities that help to hit the target, like Deadshot or Executioners Stance.
On most of my current Vet builds for Autoguns and Lasguns, running Deadshot with Stam regen perks and a +3 Stam curio means I can almost always just add 25% crit chance and huge sway reduction (particularly when hunting heads), and similarly if I’ve got any distance between me and my target and I’m not stuck in melee I’m getting up to 35% flat base damage bonuses, all without needing to use an Ult or manage Perils or chase ability stacks, and with a 25% larger ammo base and providing ammo regen to the team (and the Lasguns getting to shoot for free on crits). That’s without adding Executioner’s Stance or bothering with an end-line talent node.
That’s my issue with the existing Gunpsyker concept, the burst damage can be very high, but it takes more consumables to fuel and requires more attention and direct action on the part of the player to achieve, and isn’t adding any utility beyond some burst damage the way Staves can. Everything about the Vet is just more sustainable and less complex as far as trigger pulling goes to do the same job. Watching a Gunpsyker with a crit-focused Recon Lasgun vs a Vet set up with the same weapon is going to see an enormous gulf in sustainability without offering any substantial damage enhancement.
Going through my Scoreboard records, I’ve yet to be outshot by any Gunpsyker while on my Vet, even without Executioners Stance (running VoC builds). On my Assail/Voidstrike Psyker, I’ve dramatically outdamaged my Vet, but not with guns. I don’t think that’s necessarily because of the damage potential output, but rather the consistency and consumable issues.
I don’t think either are particularly at their best in melee. I think Gear differences are going to be the biggest differentiator there more than class abilities on that count. I’ll take a Power Sword with Tier 4 Power Cycler over trying to get much out of Soulblaze for instance, but it’s hard to beat the defensive abilities of the Psyker options, Deflector+5 Dodges on a Force Sword is amazing defensive utility.
I suspect just having the Autogun over the Lasgun is probably the bigger differentiator in that case than class. At this point I’ve taken to building Columnus Vs for any class that can take them because they’re so magnificent at running at things and blapping them (or for blapping things running right at you), while still being great at aiming for headshots at close-medium range. The lasgun is the better support weapon but doesn’t deal as well with close range beefy melee groups.
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yeah the sustained one button gameplay of the current staves is too laughable to take the notion of funneling ammo into psykers seriously. like even running scriers, the voidstrike has surge blessing…
This is just preference. I don’t have a problem finding or hitting targets without those talents. Additionally the sway reduction on Deadshot is much more useful for single shot weapons, as you will not have passive sway while shooting an automatic weapon, only recoil.
How exactly does it take more attention and action? I don’t think activating your ultimate every half a minute or so is very micro intensive. As for ammo consumption? Well you can say the same thing about Gun Lugger Ogryns. Yes they don’t have ammo regen but they can still put out some nasty dps when they need to.
I am so confused as to what is complex about gun psyker
Vet wins the Recon Lasgun comparison just because of Shock Troop.
This is just a DT player issue. I have tons of scoreboards where I get like 3x damage vets do with Gun Psyker. I think people just aren’t amazing at this game lol.
Deflector is a trap blessing. Thinking about what you said I believe I figured out why I like Gun Psyker so much. I run a Deimos with Shred and UNcanny Strike with a Graia IAG and its that you are so incredibly flexibile. There is never a situation where you are screwed. Scryer’s Gaze is just as powerful on your melee weapon as it is on your ranged weapon. And yes while vet can do melee fine, Psyker is very good in melee if you know what you are doing. Additionally on Gun Psyker builds its really easy to get the upgraded dodges talent which makes it even better.
While it probably is an unfair comparison you yourself are talking about how the lasguns are better on the Vet. But for that matter I would prefer to be a Graia Psyker rather than a Graia vet in that situation.
I don’t like the Columnus Infantry on Zealot, feels pretty weak without the help the Psyker and Vet talents give it.
I mean yes there is a huge opportunity cost to running Guns over Staves on Psyker, ammo consumption being one of them. However the guns are far more snappy and adaptable than the staves are. First of all is basic shooter management which it does leagues better than any of our current staves (Rip patch 12 Surge Staff). Yeah a Voidstrike Surge crit stuff can do some nutty stuff, but having to charge each shot and hoping for a crit against groups of elites that are almost on top of you isn’t going to be as effective as mag dumping them with scryer.
However on the other side, you can apply this to Vet or Gun Lugger Ogryn as well. “Why are they playing with guns when they could just be playing Psyker with a staff instead?” I don’t think its an entirely fair comparison and even then I think the Gun still has advantages.
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Yeah Gun psyker needs a buff. especially with its supposedly synergy talent the scriers gaze. its very underwhelming. It feels like you have to min max yourself to make it somehow “effective” compared to other builds for psyker. It needs to be accessibly powerful and probably FS should do something with scriers gaze or Disrupt Destiny to make it more…viable.
While I usually don’t like posting scoreboards, I just want to show how viable gun psyker is. This was a t5 high intensity shocktroop on Archivum Scyorax. I am not trying to say “omg I’m so good guys,” but that Gun Psyker has a lot more teeth than you are giving it credit for. Even compared to an Ogryn using a Kickback which people are complaining about. Although something you guys are absoloutely right about is that it guzzles ammo faster than a Stormlord* during an Ork charge.
Disrupt Destiny just needs some QoL changes and than its fine.
*A Stormlord is a Baneblade variant that mounts a Vulcan Mega Bolter, a Titan sized dual gatling bolter, and is notorious for its rate of ammo expenditure.
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Gun psykers need a buff? You heard this here first 
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