I don’t think you get aim punched from being shot in Ult either but yeah I might be misremembering that.
Gotta agree with the take that unwavering >>>> Camo. Everything you can do with Camo you do better and with less cost to your team with unwavering. To the point you either really care about doing auspex quickly or are just kinda trolling taking Camo.
What Zagyr has pointed out about Ult and suppression completely negates the idea that you are a faster or more effective sniper with Camo. You’re not, and you trade actively soaking ranged for dumping it on your team mates, despite you being by far the best equipped to negate being shot at.
I’m not gonna hate on or troll people who enjoy Camo, but I completely sympathise with people finding such Vets annoying, and Camo vets better not be pretending they’re being more effective by taking it over unwavering in any way.
You are immune to suppression in Volley Fire. You will flinch, yes, but if you’re trying to tank Reapers and Gunners you’re just going to die. That’s just being hyperbolic for the sake of the argument. The point I’m making is that Unwavering Focus actually keeps you in the fight, and with a proper mixture of feats, you can clear shooter rooms without ever bottoming out on your Toughness, assuming you aren’t just walking into melee enemies.
But not everyone wants that, and not everyone is going to know how to opportunistically capitalize on the fact that you are suddenly taking 1.3x the amount of threat, with the 90% threat reduction being divided among 2 other teammates. That makes a huge difference for most players.
The fact that one player has the option to enforce that upon the rest of the players is anti-team and bad design. I used it for a while at the start of the game and realized it made missions universally more of a burden on my team because I wasn’t nearly contributing as much by standing in a random corner and popping random guys.
Patently false and just an issue of players needing to learn how to crowd-surf a horde by blocking and shoving, using complimentary weapon kits, and knowing how quickly they can deal with threats before melee enemies become too much of a burden again.
But that’s the crux of the issue, right? Now I’m forcing a “get good” mantra on other players that need to be more responsible for their hybrid nature. Just because you are an Ogryn or Zealot does not mean you should be ignoring everything else to whack at hordes. Specialists and elites are an equal burden among teammates.
Also, I may be wrong, but I believe getting moved by the stagger of Gunners and Reapers also disables Camo Expert, due to the fact that you’re moving, even just incrementally.
Then it shouldn’t be an issue to leave Cameo alone, when Unwavering Focus is such a superior pick to the peoples minds.
Everything but having time to shoot enemies.
Last time i used it like that, there still suppression it is not a 100% reduction.
And with Cameo people can actually step out there, wither the fire until Cameo kicks in and then do their job.
Which is why i prefer the Veteran on my team to run Cameo, because then i can trust in them being able to clear the room quicker than if they run damage reduction.
What kind of argument is that? I don’t get to a say when i see a Veteran running around with an Autopistol and a Powersword in Damnation either. I know, in the lobby, they are going to be useless to the team and that i will need to take care of the specials instead of having someone else to rely upon.
Just like i get no say in the Ogryn running around with the Explosive weapons or the Psyker with the Trauma Staff, exploding crap right at my feet as a Zealot as if they do me a favor with it.
People won’t be playing optimally and if you want that, just make a Premade and then you can ask your teammate not to run a certain loadout. But this should not be an argument for the removal of the pick on the eventuality that someone might or might not know how to capitalize on a thing a teammate does.
The same increased threat also applies when you are far ahead or behind. I can manage to have 100% of the aggro of a horde, if i am just first in the horde and closet to the enemy. The problem is open areas where i cannot step in their way, and to have the Veteran not draw enemies away from me is a boon to me.
It is not like its always a detriment. Just like i am sure there is the occassional situation where players cannot deal with 1,3 times the attention. Neither should be an argument for the removal of a thing.
If it was, then by that argument the Ogryn will no longer have any ranged weapons, because all of them are atrocious and toxic to the teammates. I’ve been literally more annoyed in my gametime about a Psyker or an Ogryn exploding stuff infront of my Zealot while Holy Revenant was running than i ever was about any Veteran.
Veterans annoy me when they don’t kill specials and ranged Elites. If Cameo helps them kill specials and ranged threats i am all for them running Cameo. Never have i need to sit in the corner and wait for the Veteran to be done, because generally i have a Ranged weapon that helps me to help them or attempt to do the job myself. But i will never be as effective at doing that as i am when i am playing Veteran.
I highly doubt it is most players, and without doing an actual questionnaire on the player base, we only have the opinions of a bunch of posters in their thread. And most of us have a certain way we prefer to play the game and expectation for what people should and shouldn’t do.
Mine is not for the Veteran to draw aggro. I am happy if they don’t draw aggro… more aggro for me! More Horde for me… that is a good thing when i am not playing Veteran. And when i am playing Veteran, then my job is not to deal with the trash, but to kill all those annoying Grenadiers in the distance that carpet bomb and area denial the area…or to clear the shooting gallery, so the other players on my team can actually play the game and do, what i enjoy the most, when i play their classes… murder the Melee enemies.
And so far i have tried to resist a “get good” mantra on those that complain about added threat from Cameo, but unlike the Cameo situation both Zealot and Ogryn can have weapons that deny them range. Zealot’s braced autoguns are terrible to take out grenadiers in the distance… or the Ogryn with their Kickback or whatever. Like throwing lots of ammo in the distance with the Stubber to hope to maybe hit 1 in 10 bullets.
And it should not be a case where you need to “crowd surf” out of position, potentially pull even more enemies in the process as you get close to them, to personally grab that Sniper or Grenadier, when you have a Class on the team whose whole shtick is mid to long range combat… especially not when you then have a useless Unwavering Focus Vet on the team running their autopistol and meleeing the horde.
This is exactly the reason why i was in full support of removing the Power Sword from the Veteran. I don’t need the Veteran in melee. They shouldn’t melee. They should deal with the ranged threats and the rest of us will deal with melee.
I don’t care how the Veteran does their job, as long as they do their job of killing Grenadiers, Snipers and the shooting gallery in the distance, while staying within team cohesion.
I don’t want to have to break cohesion, leave the team behind, to grab a grenadier that has been harassing us, and nobody killed, for the past few minutes as we were stuck in hordes and from advancing, because the area has been carpet bombed.
I am more annoyed with Veterans not doing their job than i will ever be about 13 poxwalkers shambling my way instead of 10.
TBC I didn’t personally say I think Camo needs to be changed. Was just saying they are definitely NOT equal value. Unwavering does largely the same thing in effect but while taking aggro rather than dumping it on your team.
Stack confirmed kill a bit and poxwalkers will honestly struggle to beat your toughness regen during unwavering Ult. I think you’re hugely underrating how powerful the combo of that damage reduction with confirmed kill’s huge stacking regen actually is. I would really encourage you to spend more time with that combo because I struggle to believe you can come to the conclusion Camo is competitive with it after doing so for a while.
why is there so much talk about a obscure, hypothetical situation. yaknow touch grass dosnt work for this game, i feel like i need to tell theory crafters to “go touch the game.”
so theoretically, you have 3 pug gardmen join in a DAMNATION match, with the worst perk, and nothing will aggro to them. then you play this one, super unlikely match, and you wold never see it happen agian in your time. how much is there to say about a absurd scenario like this?
Just thought I’d politely point out the difference between the shortening of camouflage to “camo” vs the small part in a play known as a “cameo”. Save everyone some embarrassment down the line.
Also. OP I agree, deflecting aggro is a bad idea in a team game where there are no specific tank roles to soak it up.
Also. I think too many people think the way they play should be the way everyone else should play.
I dont like most active camo vets either, but if the game was really too easy for you then why would them having a sub-optimal perk matter to you?
Wouldn’t you want the extra challenge of having more aggro on you?
Theres a lot or reasons to think its a poorly designed perk but you being too good at the game isn’t one of them, if anything it seems like it frustrated you a lot, for you to have so much enmity for people using it…
Its not about that at all. I prefer sub optimal players on my team in almost all cases but vets with camo are just the easiest to kill for fun. Maybe if fatshark gave us enough challenging content we wouldnt have to find fun in other ways
You’ve got the best take in this thread. Most clear and concise point. Maybe active camo is good, maybe its bad, but either way unwavering focus is better, better for you and your team.
Between unwavering focus, confirmed kill, counter fire, maybe even the blessings “ghost” and “between the eyes”, you dont need active camo and every vets end game goal should be to get to the point where they dont need it and are better players for it.
A strong weapon does not make a good pick. The entire video didn’t show a single Veteran feat and everything it showed probably could have been done just as easily with a braced autogun.
At least there is some gimicky argument for using the Autopistol on the Psyker to exploit the fact that DOT damage is influenced by Blessings, meaning you can exploit Soulburn… but the entire video… sure you kill a lot of trash in close range, but you didn’t do anything i would want you to do as Veteran or that i couldn’t do myself as Zealot, Ogryn or even Psyker if i was on your Team.
What i would want you to do… and what i have mentioned multiple times in this thread, is take care of Snipers and Bombers in the distance, when the rest of us are taking care of the mid and close ranged stuff.
So, for you, as well, the point went over your head. Just like the Power Sword is a bad pick in my opinion for the Veteran, despite it being an arguably strong melee weapon, is a very close ranged weapon a poor pick for what i want and need the Veteran to do on my Team. Which is Mid to Long range firepower. Not some Chaff clearing stuff that can be handled just as easily by the rest of the team. Especially when they bring Braced Autoguns and Shotguns (Ripperguns, Kickback, etc) and such. I have no need for that on my Team. I can do that myself. What i cannot do, due to damage fall off and such, deal with Mid to Long ranged threats, while we are bogged down with 5+ ogryns, a horde, a mutant and maybe a Monstrosity on top… a situation that happened today on one of my runs.
What i need the Veteran to do, is get a Perch, snipe the Grenadier in the distance, without running to it and pull more enemies in the process (That i can do too!), to take out Trappers before they get close and maybe take out that Sniper that is hard to spot, all with that handy Volley Fire Ability that highlights them for the Veteran so we don’t need to play “Where is Waldo” in the middle of the fight. That is what i need the Veteran to do. I don’t need the Vet to do what the rest of us can do just as well, if not better than they do.
I mean sub 1 second TTKs on everything except a crusher, on any class, isnt “on par with a braced auto gun” its flat out over tuned, that gun is somthing you point in a direction and it plays the game for you, dosnt matter what class you play.
oh and the gimic with pykers is that power scaling from warp charges bork the math on it more then vets damage increase dose.
Every class (except ogryn; unless you use your box of hurt) has access to accurate long range options (some of which have no damage falloff).
Psykers do not even need a weapon to deal with enemies from a long distance.
Anyone who spots a sniper (which is quite easy to do) can tag it.
Anyone who has a long range option can kill it.
A Psyker can easily brainburst it. This is often easier and safer than having anyone stand and aim carefully at a sniper from long range.
