Not much of an argument, unironically, I’d appreciate if you could say why you think so. Especially considering you also play vet. Your argument is that vets have other survivability options that invalidate camo as an option, yes? I believe it’s just that, an option, and one people will misuse to their team’s detriment at times.
Yes, power-wise its better at killing, obviously. But its mobility is terrible even at 80% in my experience. Its switch speed plus needing to be powered to be worth anything can get you killed if you’re in situations where you’re constantly cycling between your firearm and melee weapon, hence I stick to shovels whenever I want to smack stuff in a wide arc. Also, with the right blessings it’s pretty competitive with the power sword, with infinitely more utility and flexibility.
I’m sorry, but after seeing that I have to shut it down. If the swap is slower just pull out the weapon earlier. You’re the ranged class so you should have more time to react to melee enemies than everyone else simply by where you are naturally positioned. You can also just dodge while weapon swapping and powering it up. Block a hit somewhere in between if you have to. 1 second less of shooting is made up for by being able to kill a horde 10 seconds faster with the powersword. If you are swapping between melee and ranged at a rapid rate, you are also wasting just as much time if not more than the “slow” powersword by being in a constant swap state. Swap speed is nice, but there can be far more powerful things like oh I don’t know 1 shotting everything and getting 100+ toughness back per swing from melee kills. I am not saying other melee options like the shovel aren’t viable and fun, but broken OP is broken OP.
If you’re going to disregard the literal paragraphs I’ve written on this and just say, “no u”, then I guess we can just leave things there then. I went out of my way on my first post to describe how people failing to properly use the feat is not grounds for it to be regarded as"bad" or “toxic”. Your unwillingness to engage with my points =/= failure to substantiate. Geez.
In a vacuum you’d be right, but the AI director dropping random spawns on top of the players, especially at higher diffs/high intensity is a thing. Which will currently happen every engagement , so it really isn’t a niche thing. Needing to switch into it and then power it to react to stuff like that makes less flexible than even knives. At no point have I made any claims about whether it’s OP or not. My only claim is that it’s not as flexible as the shovel.
I would like to point out though that enemy spawns are not random and they have doors and catwalks that they arrive or jump down from. Server/connection issues have caused many clips of randomly spawning enemies though, which is a completely valid point in itself that can’t be ignored due to how common it happens.
NGL, I want to believe you, but it reliably happens to me every match, so I’m pretty blackpilled on this. To the point that all my builds are planned around this. Even during low traffic/low server load hours. I can tell because during those times 90% instead of 65% of all my attacks register on hit enemies, LOL.
You can spend as many paragraphs as you want to bs about your unsubstantiated claim.
The reality is veteran has one of the best melee options in game + poops out free nades for self and 5% for everyone, and pressing f can pull out the gun instantly even if it’s a boltgun.
So I don’t care how many made up uses you can conjure up for it.
The better a vet player is, the less useful camo gets; and in low skill players’ hands it only adds more pressure to team while being totally useless if team is dead(which itself contributes toward).
You’re a vet main to boot, conflict of interest.
Unlike vermintide 2 stealth, camo isn’t useful for revive either so you have no excuses.
There would be a simple solution.
FS would just need to put a trigger delay of 3 second, a duration of max 6 seconds and an internal cooldown of 12 seconds onto that ability.
Or restrict it to affect only range weapon type enemies except from Ogryn gunners.
My suggestion: Camo only works when you are not engaging in melee or ranged (grenades, resurrections still works as provocation) . Delay 1.5 secs after any movement or shooting. If no other players in enemy view - enemies will attack anyway after 1.5 seconds delay.
What will marksman gain with it: clear view for picking handful amount of targets, good time to aim with Plasma / Boltgun / Helbore. Time to reload under pressure.
Marksman will be able to do his job and will not annoy people during melee skirmishes, so they can still whine and be jealous about his PS, not his stupidly OK perks.
This simply isn’t true, I can stand in front of my team on a box if I want to and the most that will happen is enemies engage with me (without hitting) and then have a change of heart and just run past me.
Camo expert is a very good talent, if finally, they implement different DR types so unwavering focus only provides a bonus against range damage it will be a competitive pick, it’s already probably worth running on maps with hard interrogation events cutting the required time to complete usually at least in half.
lol I really hate when there are Psyker using this build in my team because I can’t see sh*t in melee and it probably will give me epileptic seizures one day.
You don’t seem to know how Camo works. Camo already only works if you are not engaging in melee or shooting with enemies to close to you.
The only time when no other player is in enemies view, is when there are no enemies at all.
Enemies get ported into your back anyway all the time, even with Camo. And when you are under pressure, that means that you are either already having your Toughness broken and are soon dead by HP eating while dead lock staggering traitor guard, or being swarmed all around by a pack of poxwalkers, preventing you from reloading anyway.
To be honest, that’s a big part of why most of my psyker builds have guns; my experience has been that it’s often frustrating to play alongside staffs and the flamer if you have a weapon where, you know, you actually need to see your target (let alone try to get headshots).
I don’t really know what fundamental changes can be made to the visual effects/gameplay to avoid these weapons heavily or completely obscuring other players’ view, but I can make the choice to pick weapons that don’t inflict that problem on others.
Change Camo Expert so it’s always active, not just when the Veteran is standing still. Then rework it so rather than not attacking the Veteran at all, enemies will still target the Veteran, but their ranged attacks will be less accurate. Experienced Veterans would probably think that’s a lot more useful, and less experienced Veterans wouldn’t be accidentally griefing their teammates.
How about something totally different?
Camo Expert activates on standing still + crouch down.
It still acts like it does now.
BUT! It will double the ammo cost of every shot while active.
Was on a team with a guy using camo w/a recon lasgun. I got annoyed with all the extra work, so I stopped sharing the ammo (he’s sitting far back not moving like a good camo expert) . Eventually he got low, the power sword came out, and he was fighting with the rest of us.
Maybe rather than enemies not targeting veterans using camo expert it should be radius based. Once an enemy gets closer they should identify him in his little invisible camelioline cloak. This would mean he suffers from the same melee pressure as everyone else but not the same ranged pressure. Not that veterans really suffer under ranged fire anyway but that seems like a more sensible way to run the thing.
